[Translators-l] What do you understand in this utterance: "Information on the movement strategy architect team"

mathieu stumpf guntz psychoslave at culture-libre.org
Thu Jan 26 09:37:48 UTC 2017

Le 25/01/2017 à 20:35, Wiegand Alice a écrit :
> Thanks, Guillaume!
> I'm glad that Mathieu raised these question. We (WMF) have to be 
> sensitive and careful with our wording with respect to translations. 
> Being an international organization I would be happy to see us always 
> use a standard set of defined terms, short sentences and standard 
> grammar, which is much more difficult than expected. And sadly I know 
> exactly what I’m talking about. Thanks for raising awareness again!
Thank you Alice for you support.

For the "standard set of defined terms" I think that there already an 
ongoing effort <https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T151766> around 
glossaries led by Trizek.

I'm currently gathering a set of term I find particularly recurrent 
within my translation activities to Esperanto. It departed from two wish 
I have:

  * translating the Perligata documentation
    to Esperanto;
  * having a more consistent translation term set for Mediawiki.

The last one is led by observations of the various translations used for 
the same original term (for exemple, "block (someone)" which might be 
translated as "bloki" (to obstruct with a block) or "forbari" (to bar 
away). So the idea is to identify this duplicates, and at some point 
make a request for feedback from the community about what terms should 
be preferred, although in some cases I do have a strong preference (like 
"forbari"), and make a dedicated pass aiming at using homogeneous 
vocabulary after that.

Also as I began to translate more documentation "current affairs" on 
Meta, I added more terms related to Wikimedia movement and the Wikimedia 

Of course this plan doesn't resolve the use of synonym in the source 
strings, like "delete/efface/erase/remove/suppress". There are habits 
which are more or less consistent, like you "drop" objects of databases 
(due to the SQL command), but as far as I now there is no official 
respective usage recommendations for the previous ones. So even if we 
make (when possible) a clear distinctive one-to-one correspondence for 
each synonym, there is no guarantee that it is really meaningful (which 
also make the UX slightly less consistent).

Currently I focus on the gathering task focused on the Esperanto 
translation, but later I would like to make this more generic, using 
some centralized structured data set which gather terms and short 
definitions in multiple languages. So far I didn't looked in detail how 
it would make a good match or not, but may structured data set on 
Commons might be used for that, I'm just afraid that it would make 
translation harder as, as far as I know, the Translation extension 
doesn't support that kind of input and asking translators to edit Lua 
code isn't really appropriate.

Ok, I think I'll stop here, as this email begin to be rather long and is 
probably by now completely  out of topic. :P

> Alice.
>> Am 25.01.2017 um 18:02 schrieb Guillaume Paumier 
>> <gpaumier at wikimedia.org <mailto:gpaumier at wikimedia.org>>:
>> Hi,
>> 2017-01-25 8:47 GMT-08:00 mathieu stumpf guntz 
>> <psychoslave at culture-libre.org <mailto:psychoslave at culture-libre.org>>:
>>> Well, I have a similar difficulty to interpret this message: "2016 
>>> Wikimedia
>>> Foundation Leadership Team Retreat"
>> In this case, it's "a retreat of the leadership team of the Wikimedia
>> Foundation that happened in 2016". The "leadership team" usually means
>> the C-level staff.
>>> I would be curious to know if other translators feel sometime 
>>> blocked when
>>> they meet such a long juxtaposed words and if they have some tricks 
>>> to get
>>> around this difficulty.
>>> Also is there somewhere where we could feedback a need for 
>>> formulation using
>>> more prepositions in official documents published by WMF? I don't 
>>> know if it
>>> would feel more "pedantic" or "uncommon" for most English natives, but
>>> surely it might help – at least me – in translation.
>> I've added a note to
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tech/News/Manual#Guidelines because
>> that's the only place I know that includes that kind of
>> recommendations. Feel free to add it to other places.
>> -- 
>> Guillaume Paumier
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