No subject


Fri Dec 10 13:58:20 UTC 2010


frustrating and disappointing experience. Despite my best efforts we did no=
t receive a completely translated central banner in Welsh and clicking on t=
he central banner never took us to the Welsh language version of the donati=
on landing page, at least for the vast majority of cy users, those living i=
n the UK.=20
=0A
To describe in detail:


Translation links for translators
This year you decided not to include translation links from the central not=
ice to meta because this was drawing people away from the donation link. I'=
m not taking issue with that decision. As you=0A know the disadvantage of t=
his is that potential translators do not know where to translate, which is =
potentially aggravating for those users (of which more below). One way of m=
itigating this difficulty would have been to post on the community page an =
invitation and link to the translation tab of the Fundraiser 2010 hub, spec=
ifically inviting users to translate, when the campaign went permanently li=
ve. Assuming that the central banner will lack the translation links next y=
ear too I recommend you do this next year.
=0A
The link to the fundraiser translation which was included as a banner on me=
ta was very useful by the way - please can we have this next year too.


i-10n issues
It does not appear that i-10n issues were considered during the preparation=
 and testing of the fundraiser either at Wikimedia Foundation or at any of =
the chapters. Each chapter had its own landing pages with its own messages.=
 No mechanism was put in place to allow all=0A language wikis within the ge=
ographical area of the chapter to localise these chapter-specific messages.=
 It was only when this issue was raised by the wikis affected that this was=
 addressed. Casey brown set up some translated pages for individual combina=
tions of language/chapter, at their request. This was done on an ad hoc bas=
is, it being down to each language wiki to understand the problem and reque=
st action. This issue was discussed on the l-translators list but not all t=
ranslators subscribe to the list (especially not those who are first-time t=
ranslators at meta). I requested that somebody who knew the ins and outs of=
 this issue write some general advice about this on meta itself. I was disa=
ppointed that my request was not answered.=20
=0A
I recommend that when further action is needed by translators, to get their=
 translations applied, then notes about this should be posted where we are =
likely to see them - such as on the relevant translation pages=0A at meta.=
=20


Image format
After having translated various messages specific to Wikimedia UK and Casey=
 Brown having published them it was still not possible to see them because =
of a technical issue with the banner, apparently caused by its being done a=
s an image on Wikimedia UK. As I understand it the image format performed b=
etter during the testing and so was chosen. No consideration whatsoever had=
 been given to the issue of localisation of image formats.
=0A
Unfortunately it appears that there was only one person at WikiMedia UK who=
 was in a position to create the correct banner images with 'Read Now' loca=
lised and linking to the localised WikiMedia UK landing pages. This one per=
son was unfortunately too busy to do this as I understand it. I had hoped t=
hat we would get this done by Christmas but it never was done. I am quite d=
isappointed that my last e-mail of concerning this has still not been answe=
red, leaving me still in the dark to=0A some extent.=A0 In any case he woul=
d have had to attend to each language individually, meaning that only those=
 languages requesting this would have been able to be fixed.

Please make sure that you use localisable formats in future.
=0A

Disregard of non-state language wikis
I guess that the amount of money that you could raise from the wikis of non=
-state languages is usually small so from the point of view of an efficient=
 fund-raiser all this is unimportant. But from my point of view fundraiser =
central notices appearing wholly or partly in a language which is not the w=
iki language are counter-productive. Rather than encouraging users to donat=
e they discourage donation. You did not receive a donation from me this yea=
r, as I was waiting to be able to do this via the central banner.=20
=0A
Worse than that however is that these central notices appearing in English =
or state languages are intrusive and alienating, and in my opinion damage=
=0A these wikis. It creates a them and us mentality, reinforcing the view t=
hat the users of these wikis do not 'own' them. Usually central notices are=
 translated quickly by me to avoid any appearing in English. It was very fr=
ustrating to do many hours of work on the fundraiser, only for most of it n=
ot to appear via the central banner.=A0 The whole experience was very disco=
uraging.
=0A

Next year
I write all the above in the hope that next year's fundraiser can be improv=
ed. I realise that all involved, volunteers and paid staff, are working und=
er a lot of pressure and that there was no intention to aggravate the reade=
rs and translators of the smaller wikis.=A0 Some of the smaller wikis do no=
t have enough manpower to translate all the stuff produced by WMF, either i=
n a timely fashion, or at all.=A0 It was a shame that technical issues prev=
ented the=A0 hard work of those of us who did translate the fundraiser from=
 being put to use. Since I=0A know that I was not the only person who had d=
ifficulties this year I am copying this message to the translators-l list.

Regards,
Eleri James (Lloffiwr), Wales






=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A     =20
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=0Ahttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l

=0A=0A=0A=0A     =20
_______________________________________________
=0ATranslators-l mailing list
=0ATranslators-l at lists.wikimedia.org
=0Ahttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
=0A

=0A
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Translators-l mailing list
Translators-l at lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
=0A=0A=0A      
--0-1873681907-1296292763=:26370
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0" ><tr><td valign=3D"=
top" style=3D"font: inherit;">Thank you Manuelt15 for comments. Assuming pr=
oblem is the greeting this is another attempt at the e-mail posted on 22.1.=
11, 26.1.11 and 28.1.11 but not archived.<blockquote style=3D"border-left: =
2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><div id=
=3D"yiv1309242198"><div class=3D"yiv1309242198gmail_quote"><blockquote clas=
s=3D"yiv1309242198gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-l=
eft: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><table border=3D"0" =
cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0"><tbody><tr><td style=3D"font: inherit;"=
 valign=3D"top"><blockquote style=3D"border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255=
); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><div><div class=3D"yiv1309242198h5=
"><div><table border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0"><tbody><tr><=
td style=3D"font: inherit;" valign=3D"top"><br><br>From my point=0A of view=
 the translation of the fundraiser 2010 was a very frustrating and disappoi=
nting experience. Despite my best efforts we did not receive a completely t=
ranslated central banner in Welsh and clicking on the central banner never =
took us to the Welsh language version of the donation landing page, at leas=
t for the vast majority of cy users, those living in the UK. <br>=0A<br>To =
describe in detail:<br><br><br>Translation links for translators<br>This ye=
ar you decided not to include translation links from the central notice to =
meta because this was drawing people away from the donation link. I'm not t=
aking issue with that decision. As you=0A know the disadvantage of this is =
that potential translators do not know where to translate, which is potenti=
ally aggravating for those users (of which more below). One way of mitigati=
ng this difficulty would have been to post on the community page an invitat=
ion and link to the translation tab of the Fundraiser 2010 hub, specificall=
y inviting users to translate, when the campaign went permanently live. Ass=
uming that the central banner will lack the translation links next year too=
 I recommend you do this next year.<br>=0A<br>The link to the fundraiser tr=
anslation which was included as a banner on meta was very useful by the way=
 - please can we have this next year too.<br><br><br>i-10n issues<br>It doe=
s not appear that i-10n issues were considered during the preparation and t=
esting of the fundraiser either at Wikimedia Foundation or at any of the ch=
apters. Each chapter had its own landing pages with its own messages. No me=
chanism was put in place to allow all=0A language wikis within the geograph=
ical area of the chapter to localise these chapter-specific messages. It wa=
s only when this issue was raised by the wikis affected that this was addre=
ssed. Casey brown set up some translated pages for individual combinations =
of language/chapter, at their request. This was done on an ad hoc basis, it=
 being down to each language wiki to understand the problem and request act=
ion. This issue was discussed on the l-translators list but not all transla=
tors subscribe to the list (especially not those who are first-time transla=
tors at meta). I requested that somebody who knew the ins and outs of this =
issue write some general advice about this on meta itself. I was disappoint=
ed that my request was not answered. <br>=0A<br>I recommend that when furth=
er action is needed by translators, to get their translations applied, then=
 notes about this should be posted where we are likely to see them - such a=
s on the relevant translation pages=0A at meta. <br><br><br>Image format<br=
>After having translated various messages specific to Wikimedia UK and Case=
y Brown having published them it was still not possible to see them because=
 of a technical issue with the banner, apparently caused by its being done =
as an image on Wikimedia UK. As I understand it the image format performed =
better during the testing and so was chosen. No consideration whatsoever ha=
d been given to the issue of localisation of image formats.<br>=0A<br>Unfor=
tunately it appears that there was only one person at WikiMedia UK who was =
in a position to create the correct banner images with 'Read Now' localised=
 and linking to the localised WikiMedia UK landing pages. This one person w=
as unfortunately too busy to do this as I understand it. I had hoped that w=
e would get this done by Christmas but it never was done. I am quite disapp=
ointed that my last e-mail of concerning this has still not been answered, =
leaving me still in the dark to=0A some extent.&nbsp; In any case he would =
have had to attend to each language individually, meaning that only those l=
anguages requesting this would have been able to be fixed.<br><br>Please ma=
ke sure that you use localisable formats in future.<br>=0A<br><br>Disregard=
 of non-state language wikis<br>I guess that the amount of money that you c=
ould raise from the wikis of non-state languages is usually small so from t=
he point of view of an efficient fund-raiser all this is unimportant. But f=
rom my point of view fundraiser central notices appearing wholly or partly =
in a language which is not the wiki language are counter-productive. Rather=
 than encouraging users to donate they discourage donation. You did not rec=
eive a donation from me this year, as I was waiting to be able to do this v=
ia the central banner. <br>=0A<br>Worse than that however is that these cen=
tral notices appearing in English or state languages are intrusive and alie=
nating, and in my opinion damage=0A these wikis. It creates a them and us m=
entality, reinforcing the view that the users of these wikis do not 'own' t=
hem. Usually central notices are translated quickly by me to avoid any appe=
aring in English. It was very frustrating to do many hours of work on the f=
undraiser, only for most of it not to appear via the central banner.&nbsp; =
The whole experience was very discouraging.<br>=0A<br><br>Next year<br>I wr=
ite all the above in the hope that next year's fundraiser can be improved. =
I realise that all involved, volunteers and paid staff, are working under a=
 lot of pressure and that there was no intention to aggravate the readers a=
nd translators of the smaller wikis.&nbsp; Some of the smaller wikis do not=
 have enough manpower to translate all the stuff produced by WMF, either in=
 a timely fashion, or at all.&nbsp; It was a shame that technical issues pr=
evented the&nbsp; hard work of those of us who did translate the fundraiser=
 from being put to use. Since I=0A know that I was not the only person who =
had difficulties this year I am copying this message to the translators-l l=
ist.<br><br>Regards,<br>Eleri James (Lloffiwr), Wales<br><br><br><br><br><b=
r></td></tr></tbody></table><br>=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A      </div><br></div></div>=
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____________________<br>Translators-l mailing list<br><a rel=3D"nofollow" t=
arget=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://mc/compose?to=3DTranslators-l@lists.wikimed=
ia.org">Translators-l at lists.wikimedia.org</a><br>=0A<a rel=3D"nofollow" tar=
get=3D"_blank" href=3D"https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/transla=
tors-l">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l</a><br><=
/div></blockquote></td></tr></tbody></table><br>=0A=0A=0A=0A      <br>_____=
__________________________________________<br>=0ATranslators-l mailing list=
<br>=0A<a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:Translators-l at lists.wikimedia.=
org" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"/mc/compose?to=3DTranslators-l at lists.wikimed=
ia.org">Translators-l at lists.wikimedia.org</a><br>=0A<a rel=3D"nofollow" tar=
get=3D"_blank" href=3D"https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/transla=
tors-l">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l</a><br>=
=0A<br></blockquote></div><br>=0A</div><br>-----Inline Attachment Follows--=
---<br><br><div class=3D"plainMail">_______________________________________=
________<br>Translators-l mailing list<br><a ymailto=3D"mailto:Translators-=
l at lists.wikimedia.org" href=3D"/mc/compose?to=3DTranslators-l at lists.wikimed=
ia.org">Translators-l at lists.wikimedia.org</a><br><a href=3D"https://lists.w=
ikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l" target=3D"_blank">https://list=
s.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l</a><br></div></blockquote></=
td></tr></table><br>=0A=0A=0A=0A      
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