No subject
Fri Dec 10 13:58:20 UTC 2010
strating and disappointing experience. Despite my best efforts we did not r=
eceive a completely translated central banner in Welsh and clicking on the =
central banner never took us to the Welsh language version of the donation =
landing page, at least for the vast majority of cy users, those living in t=
he UK.=20
To describe in detail:
Translation links for translators
This year you decided not to include translation links from the central not=
ice to meta because this was drawing people away from the donation link. I'=
m not taking issue with that decision. As you=0A know the disadvantage of t=
his is that potential translators do not know where to translate, which is =
potentially aggravating for those users (of which more below). One way of m=
itigating this difficulty would have been to post on the community page an =
invitation and link to the translation tab of the Fundraiser 2010 hub, spec=
ifically inviting users to translate, when the campaign went permanently li=
ve. Assuming that the central banner will lack the translation links next y=
ear too I recommend you do this next year.
The link to the fundraiser translation which was included as a banner on me=
ta was very useful by the way - please can we have this next year too.
i-10n issues
It does not appear that i-10n issues were considered during the preparation=
and testing of the fundraiser either at Wikimedia Foundation or at any of =
the chapters. Each chapter had its own landing pages with its own messages.=
No mechanism was put in place to allow all=0A language wikis within the ge=
ographical area of the chapter to localise these chapter-specific messages.=
It was only when this issue was raised by the wikis affected that this was=
addressed. Casey brown set up some translated pages for individual combina=
tions of language/chapter, at their request. This was done on an ad hoc bas=
is, it being down to each language wiki to understand the problem and reque=
st action. This issue was discussed on the l-translators list but not all t=
ranslators subscribe to the list (especially not those who are first-time t=
ranslators at meta). I requested that somebody who knew the ins and outs of=
this issue write some general advice about this on meta itself. I was disa=
ppointed that my request was not answered.=20
I recommend that when further action is needed by translators, to get their=
translations applied, then notes about this should be posted where we are =
likely to see them - such as on the relevant translation pages=0A at meta.=
=20
Image format
After having translated various messages specific to Wikimedia UK and Casey=
Brown having published them it was still not possible to see them because =
of a technical issue with the banner, apparently caused by its being done a=
s an image on Wikimedia UK. As I understand it the image format performed b=
etter during the testing and so was chosen. No consideration whatsoever had=
been given to the issue of localisation of image formats.
Unfortunately it appears that there was only one person at WikiMedia UK who=
was in a position to create the correct banner images with 'Read Now' loca=
lised and linking to the localised WikiMedia UK landing pages. This one per=
son was unfortunately too busy to do this as I understand it. I had hoped t=
hat we would get this done by Christmas but it never was done. I am quite d=
isappointed that my last e-mail of concerning this has still not been answe=
red, leaving me still in the dark to=0A some extent.=A0 In any case he woul=
d have had to attend to each language individually, meaning that only those=
languages requesting this would have been able to be fixed.
Please make sure that you use localisable formats in future.
Disregard of non-state language wikis
I guess that the amount of money that you could raise from the wikis of non=
-state languages is usually small so from the point of view of an efficient=
fund-raiser all this is unimportant. But from my point of view fundraiser =
central notices appearing wholly or partly in a language which is not the w=
iki language are counter-productive. Rather than encouraging users to donat=
e they discourage donation. You did not receive a donation from me this yea=
r, as I was waiting to be able to do this via the central banner.=20
Worse than that however is that these central notices appearing in English =
or state languages are intrusive and alienating, and in my opinion damage=
=0A these wikis. It creates a them and us mentality, reinforcing the view t=
hat the users of these wikis do not 'own' them. Usually central notices are=
translated quickly by me to avoid any appearing in English. It was very fr=
ustrating to do many hours of work on the fundraiser, only for most of it n=
ot to appear via the central banner.=A0 The whole experience was very disco=
uraging.
Next year
I write all the above in the hope that next year's fundraiser can be improv=
ed. I realise that all involved, volunteers and paid staff, are working und=
er a lot of pressure and that there was no intention to aggravate the reade=
rs and translators of the smaller wikis.=A0 Some of the smaller wikis do no=
t have enough manpower to translate all the stuff produced by WMF, either i=
n a timely fashion, or at all.=A0 It was a shame that technical issues prev=
ented the=A0 hard work of those of us who did translate the fundraiser from=
being put to use. Since I=0A know that I was not the only person who had d=
ifficulties this year I am copying this message to the translators-l list.
Regards,
Eleri James (Lloffiwr), Wales
=0A=0A=0A=0A =20
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=0A=0A=0A
--0-1255709255-1296236083=:42389
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0" ><tr><td valign=3D"=
top" style=3D"font: inherit;">Sorry, the name should have been Philippe Bea=
udette!<br><br>Eleri James<br><br>--- On <b>Fri, 28/1/11, Eleri James <i>&l=
t;elerijms at yahoo.co.uk></i></b> wrote:<br><blockquote style=3D"border-le=
ft: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><br>F=
rom: Eleri James <elerijms at yahoo.co.uk><br>Subject: [Translators-l] C=
opy of e-mail to Philippe Beaudelaire regarding 2010 fundraiser<br>To: "tra=
nslators-l" <translators-l at lists.wikimedia.org><br>Date: Friday, 28 J=
anuary, 2011, 17:28<br><br><div id=3D"yiv343130166"><table border=3D"0" cel=
lpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0"><tbody><tr><td style=3D"font: inherit;" va=
lign=3D"top">Dear All,<br><br>There follows an e-mail I tried to post on th=
is list on 22.1.11 and 26.1.11, but which was cut off after the 'Dear Phili=
ppe'. I hope it is accepted this time:<br><br>Dear Philippe,<br><br><=
br>From my point
of view the translation of the fundraiser 2010 was a very frustrating and =
disappointing experience. Despite my best efforts we did not receive a comp=
letely translated central banner in Welsh and clicking on the central banne=
r never took us to the Welsh language version of the donation landing page,=
at least for the vast majority of cy users, those living in the UK. <br><b=
r>To describe in detail:<br><br><br>Translation links for translators<br>Th=
is year you decided not to include translation links from the central notic=
e to meta because this was drawing people away from the donation link. I'm =
not taking issue with that decision. As you=0A know the disadvantage of thi=
s is that potential translators do not know where to translate, which is po=
tentially aggravating for those users (of which more below). One way of mit=
igating this difficulty would have been to post on the community page an in=
vitation and link to the translation tab of the Fundraiser 2010 hub, specif=
ically inviting users to translate, when the campaign went permanently live=
. Assuming that the central banner will lack the translation links next yea=
r too I recommend you do this next year.<br><br>The link to the fundraiser =
translation which was included as a banner on meta was very useful by the w=
ay - please can we have this next year too.<br><br><br>i-10n issues<br>It d=
oes not appear that i-10n issues were considered during the preparation and=
testing of the fundraiser either at Wikimedia Foundation or at any of the =
chapters. Each chapter had its own landing pages with its own messages. No =
mechanism was put in place to allow all=0A language wikis within the geogra=
phical area of the chapter to localise these chapter-specific messages. It =
was only when this issue was raised by the wikis affected that this was add=
ressed. Casey brown set up some translated pages for individual combination=
s of language/chapter, at their request. This was done on an ad hoc basis, =
it being down to each language wiki to understand the problem and request a=
ction. This issue was discussed on the l-translators list but not all trans=
lators subscribe to the list (especially not those who are first-time trans=
lators at meta). I requested that somebody who knew the ins and outs of thi=
s issue write some general advice about this on meta itself. I was disappoi=
nted that my request was not answered. <br><br>I recommend that when furthe=
r action is needed by translators, to get their translations applied, then =
notes about this should be posted where we are likely to see them - such as=
on the relevant translation pages=0A at meta. <br><br><br>Image format<br>=
After having translated various messages specific to Wikimedia UK and Casey=
Brown having published them it was still not possible to see them because =
of a technical issue with the banner, apparently caused by its being done a=
s an image on Wikimedia UK. As I understand it the image format performed b=
etter during the testing and so was chosen. No consideration whatsoever had=
been given to the issue of localisation of image formats.<br><br>Unfortuna=
tely it appears that there was only one person at WikiMedia UK who was in a=
position to create the correct banner images with 'Read Now' localised and=
linking to the localised WikiMedia UK landing pages. This one person was u=
nfortunately too busy to do this as I understand it. I had hoped that we wo=
uld get this done by Christmas but it never was done. I am quite disappoint=
ed that my last e-mail of concerning this has still not been answered, leav=
ing me still in the dark to=0A some extent. In any case he would have=
had to attend to each language individually, meaning that only those langu=
ages requesting this would have been able to be fixed.<br><br>Please make s=
ure that you use localisable formats in future.<br><br><br>Disregard of non=
-state language wikis<br>I guess that the amount of money that you could ra=
ise from the wikis of non-state languages is usually small so from the poin=
t of view of an efficient fund-raiser all this is unimportant. But from my =
point of view fundraiser central notices appearing wholly or partly in a la=
nguage which is not the wiki language are counter-productive. Rather than e=
ncouraging users to donate they discourage donation. You did not receive a =
donation from me this year, as I was waiting to be able to do this via the =
central banner. <br><br>Worse than that however is that these central notic=
es appearing in English or state languages are intrusive and alienating, an=
d in my opinion damage=0A these wikis. It creates a them and us mentality, =
reinforcing the view that the users of these wikis do not 'own' them. Usual=
ly central notices are translated quickly by me to avoid any appearing in E=
nglish. It was very frustrating to do many hours of work on the fundraiser,=
only for most of it not to appear via the central banner. The whole =
experience was very discouraging.<br><br><br>Next year<br>I write all the a=
bove in the hope that next year's fundraiser can be improved. I realise tha=
t all involved, volunteers and paid staff, are working under a lot of press=
ure and that there was no intention to aggravate the readers and translator=
s of the smaller wikis. Some of the smaller wikis do not have enough =
manpower to translate all the stuff produced by WMF, either in a timely fas=
hion, or at all. It was a shame that technical issues prevented the&n=
bsp; hard work of those of us who did translate the fundraiser from being p=
ut to use. Since I=0A know that I was not the only person who had difficult=
ies this year I am copying this message to the translators-l list.<br><br>R=
egards,<br>Eleri James (Lloffiwr), Wales<br><br><br><br><br><br></td></tr><=
/tbody></table><br>=0A=0A=0A=0A </div><br>-----Inline Attachment Follo=
ws-----<br><br><div class=3D"plainMail">___________________________________=
____________<br>Translators-l mailing list<br><a ymailto=3D"mailto:Translat=
ors-l at lists.wikimedia.org" href=3D"/mc/compose?to=3DTranslators-l at lists.wik=
imedia.org">Translators-l at lists.wikimedia.org</a><br><a href=3D"https://lis=
ts.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l" target=3D"_blank">https://=
lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l</a><br></div></blockquot=
e></td></tr></table><br>=0A=0A=0A=0A
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