[Wiki Loves Monuments] Moving monuments database to Wikidata

Sun Jul 26 18:29:15 UTC 2015

2015-07-26 20:13 GMT+02:00 Mykola Kozlenko <mycola-k at ukr.net>:

> (Answering to two simultaneous emails immediately, sorry if someone is
> confused).
>

> Ok, those are great ideas but they are not quite feasible for 70,000 items.
>
> 1) Our IDs. It is not quite easy to publish somewhere in a reliable source
> a database of 70,000 items. Especially given that this is still work in
> progress - we are lacking many lists - thus we have only about a half of
> total number, as estimated number of monuments in Ukraine is between
> 120,000 and 150,000. So far no one managed to publish a database of over
> 20,000 monuments, thus ours is definitely the best one, but we can hardly
> imagine who can publish this.
>
> In addition, we do not have reliable sources (in terms of
> Wikipedia/Wikidata) that those objects are monuments - our usual sources
> are letters from local governments, in best case it's a PDF file, in worst
> case it looks like THIS http://toolserver.org.ua/132542.JPG
>
> Of course we can try to add something like "Wikimedia Ukraine ID", but we
> reasonably expect to see it rejected - we did not even publish our lists in
> the Main namespace for this reason.
>

Oo

In this case, can't you go the other way round and use the Wikidata QXXXX
as your ID ?

> 2) Adresses.
> * First of all, there is no way we can have coordinates for all monuments
> - in one city it took about a week for a local resident to add coordinates
> to all monuments in his city - this requires advanced knowledge of local
> geography, like being able to distinguish "Central park" and "City park"
> * Secondly, P969 is an option - but we need it to be multilingual. In case
> of big cities, we will most likely have street names and we need to have a
> cyrillic (Ukrainian) and latinic (English) versions for them. In case of
> Crimea, we happen to have addresses in Ukrainian and in Russian separately
> and we would need to prefer to keep both if we transfer on Wikidata.
>

Can't you use P969 multiple times ?

> * Thirdly, in some cases we have monuments located in an unknown village,
> i.e. a village that does not exist. In some cases it's a renamed villages
> (=we have an item for it), in some cases this village became a part of
> another village (=we change to this another village and put old village
> into address), in some cases it's an abandonned village (=we don't have an
> item for it), and in the worst case we do not know what it is (and we hope
> that a local resident will find it and fix it).
>

Wikidata is used to deal with strange stuff like that; there is several
ways to do it.
See the P131 of https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1668992 for an example where
the town was merge into an other one.

> * Finally, we can have just no address and two items with the same name
> (e.g. Church, Common grave, Burial mound) with ID as the only way to
> distinguish them.
>

Yes, you can have no adress. Maybe you can add other properties?

3) Oh, and third problem, a more fundamental one. *Will Wikidata be used as
> a duplicate of on-wiki database (like erfgoedbot's database) or a main
> source of data?*
>

More likely the second case.

> In the second case we need an easy tool being able to:
> * retrieve all monuments in a given city / region (main way for people to
> find what they want to picture)
>

Autolist can do that (all the protected monument in Rennes :
http://tools.wmflabs.org/autolist/index.php?language=en&project=wikipedia&category=&depth=12&wdq=claim[131%3A647]%20and%20claim[380]&statementlist=&run=Run&mode_manual=or&mode_cat=or&mode_wdq=not&mode_find=or&chunk_size=10000
)

Maybe other tools can do it; it will be easier and better to build tools
like that with Wikidata.

> * ...and filter monuments of a given type (e.g. monuments of architecture
> of national significance - we have 4 types and 3 subtypes)
>

same thing, if the data is in Wikidata

> * ...and filter monuments built in a given year (FOP monitoring)
>

idem

> * update all monuments in a given region (we update lists yearly once we
> receive new ones, but we do not want to overwrite edits by other users if
> they fix mistakes, so we need to *compare* and overwrite)
>

That a bit more tricky but Autolist can help.

> * retrieve all monuments in a given region and  modify them manually (e.g.
> add coordinates)
>

There is no tool to do all of that right now but it shouldn't be complicate
to create.

You can retrieve the list with Autolist and modify them with QuickStatement.

>
> All of this is rather easy to do with a wiki-based table, it is also
> rather easy to do with a good database, but we have a bad database, so what
> can we do with it?
>
> Thanks,
> Mykola
>
> --- Оригінальне повідомлення ---
> Від кого: "Andy Mabbett" <andy at pigsonthewing.org.uk>
> Дата: 26 липня 2015, 18:23:59
>
>
> On 26 July 2015 at 12:39, Mykola Kozlenko <mycola-k at ukr.net> wrote:
>
>
> 1) Our monument IDs are the ones we invent ourselves. We have 4 types of
> monuments times 27 regions (+1 nationwide list), some of these lists have
> identifiers, some not. Identifiers are not unique even within the same
> list, e.g. one list has a few monuments with identifier "1", and in total
> we have several dozens monuments with identifier "1". Thus our governmental
> IDs are pretty useless, but does Wikidata accept original IDs created by
> Wikimedians?
>
>
> No, but you could publish them/ have someone publish them.
>
>
> 2) Many of our monuments do not have precise addresses like "city, street,
> house number", but something like descriptions, e.g. "1.2 km north of the
> railway station, 500 m east of the road to (some village), 300 m west of
> the cemetery"  or "in the centre of the village, in the park behind the
> shop". Is there a way to describe this on Wikidata?
>
>
> Give the coordinates.
>
> In addition, we would be glad to know if there are any tools to migrate
> 70,000+ items to Wikidata, as doing this manually would be probably
> impossible... If not, we would be still interested in old good erfgoedbot
> who  did its job pretty well in our case.
>
>
> Yes; for instance QuickStatements.
>
>    http://tools.wmflabs.org/wikidata-todo/quick_statements.php
>
> --
> Andy Mabbett
> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
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