[Wiki Loves Monuments] Moving monuments database to Wikidata

Nicolas VIGNERON vigneron.nicolas at gmail.com
Sun Jul 26 18:29:15 UTC 2015

2015-07-26 20:13 GMT+02:00 Mykola Kozlenko <mycola-k at ukr.net>:

> (Answering to two simultaneous emails immediately, sorry if someone is
> confused).

> Ok, those are great ideas but they are not quite feasible for 70,000 items.
> 1) Our IDs. It is not quite easy to publish somewhere in a reliable source
> a database of 70,000 items. Especially given that this is still work in
> progress - we are lacking many lists - thus we have only about a half of
> total number, as estimated number of monuments in Ukraine is between
> 120,000 and 150,000. So far no one managed to publish a database of over
> 20,000 monuments, thus ours is definitely the best one, but we can hardly
> imagine who can publish this.
> In addition, we do not have reliable sources (in terms of
> Wikipedia/Wikidata) that those objects are monuments - our usual sources
> are letters from local governments, in best case it's a PDF file, in worst
> case it looks like THIS http://toolserver.org.ua/132542.JPG
> Of course we can try to add something like "Wikimedia Ukraine ID", but we
> reasonably expect to see it rejected - we did not even publish our lists in
> the Main namespace for this reason.


In this case, can't you go the other way round and use the Wikidata QXXXX
as your ID ?

> 2) Adresses.
> * First of all, there is no way we can have coordinates for all monuments
> - in one city it took about a week for a local resident to add coordinates
> to all monuments in his city - this requires advanced knowledge of local
> geography, like being able to distinguish "Central park" and "City park"
> * Secondly, P969 is an option - but we need it to be multilingual. In case
> of big cities, we will most likely have street names and we need to have a
> cyrillic (Ukrainian) and latinic (English) versions for them. In case of
> Crimea, we happen to have addresses in Ukrainian and in Russian separately
> and we would need to prefer to keep both if we transfer on Wikidata.

Can't you use P969 multiple times ?

> * Thirdly, in some cases we have monuments located in an unknown village,
> i.e. a village that does not exist. In some cases it's a renamed villages
> (=we have an item for it), in some cases this village became a part of
> another village (=we change to this another village and put old village
> into address), in some cases it's an abandonned village (=we don't have an
> item for it), and in the worst case we do not know what it is (and we hope
> that a local resident will find it and fix it).

Wikidata is used to deal with strange stuff like that; there is several
ways to do it.
See the P131 of https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1668992 for an example where
the town was merge into an other one.

> * Finally, we can have just no address and two items with the same name
> (e.g. Church, Common grave, Burial mound) with ID as the only way to
> distinguish them.

Yes, you can have no adress. Maybe you can add other properties?

3) Oh, and third problem, a more fundamental one. *Will Wikidata be used as
> a duplicate of on-wiki database (like erfgoedbot's database) or a main
> source of data?*

More likely the second case.

> In the second case we need an easy tool being able to:
> * retrieve all monuments in a given city / region (main way for people to
> find what they want to picture)

Autolist can do that (all the protected monument in Rennes :

Maybe other tools can do it; it will be easier and better to build tools
like that with Wikidata.

> * ...and filter monuments of a given type (e.g. monuments of architecture
> of national significance - we have 4 types and 3 subtypes)

same thing, if the data is in Wikidata

> * ...and filter monuments built in a given year (FOP monitoring)


> * update all monuments in a given region (we update lists yearly once we
> receive new ones, but we do not want to overwrite edits by other users if
> they fix mistakes, so we need to *compare* and overwrite)

That a bit more tricky but Autolist can help.

> * retrieve all monuments in a given region and  modify them manually (e.g.
> add coordinates)

There is no tool to do all of that right now but it shouldn't be complicate
to create.

You can retrieve the list with Autolist and modify them with QuickStatement.

> All of this is rather easy to do with a wiki-based table, it is also
> rather easy to do with a good database, but we have a bad database, so what
> can we do with it?
> Thanks,
> Mykola
> --- Оригінальне повідомлення ---
> Від кого: "Andy Mabbett" <andy at pigsonthewing.org.uk>
> Дата: 26 липня 2015, 18:23:59
> On 26 July 2015 at 12:39, Mykola Kozlenko <mycola-k at ukr.net> wrote:
> 1) Our monument IDs are the ones we invent ourselves. We have 4 types of
> monuments times 27 regions (+1 nationwide list), some of these lists have
> identifiers, some not. Identifiers are not unique even within the same
> list, e.g. one list has a few monuments with identifier "1", and in total
> we have several dozens monuments with identifier "1". Thus our governmental
> IDs are pretty useless, but does Wikidata accept original IDs created by
> Wikimedians?
> No, but you could publish them/ have someone publish them.
> 2) Many of our monuments do not have precise addresses like "city, street,
> house number", but something like descriptions, e.g. "1.2 km north of the
> railway station, 500 m east of the road to (some village), 300 m west of
> the cemetery"  or "in the centre of the village, in the park behind the
> shop". Is there a way to describe this on Wikidata?
> Give the coordinates.
> In addition, we would be glad to know if there are any tools to migrate
> 70,000+ items to Wikidata, as doing this manually would be probably
> impossible... If not, we would be still interested in old good erfgoedbot
> who  did its job pretty well in our case.
> Yes; for instance QuickStatements.
>    http://tools.wmflabs.org/wikidata-todo/quick_statements.php
> --
> Andy Mabbett
> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
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