[Wiki Loves Monuments] [Wikimedia-l] Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising

Sun Aug 30 17:04:41 UTC 2015

Hi all,

Having spoken with some people, I have come to the conclusion that it is
time to ask the Wikimedia community what they think about this situation. I
have especially seen both parties, the Wiki Loves Monuments organising
teams who like to have a banner for Wiki Loves Monuments in September, and
the WMF Fundraising team who likes to have a fundraising banner in
September. Then the question remains: what has more value for the Wikimedia
movement?

To find out what the Wikimedia community thinks about this situation, I
have set up this Request for Comment:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Fundraising_banner_or_Wiki_Loves_Monuments_banner

Romaine

2015-08-30 15:35 GMT+02:00 Romaine Wiki <romaine.wiki at gmail.com>:

> Hi all,
>
> New update:
>
> The Italian team had some calls with the fundraising team and it resulted
> in:
> * Wiki Loves Monuments gets the whole 4th week of September. So we will
> have the WLM banner alone the first and the last week.
> * WLM IT is discussing with the community a message in the Main Page of
> Wikipedia
> * WMF will try to put a link to WLM in the banner
> * WMF will put a link to WLM in the Thank You letter for donors.
> * WMF is helping WLM Italy with a blogpost in the blog, and social media
> fire
>
> They made clear this won't happen again.
>
> To me, the only improvements is their promise it won't happen again, what
> we certainly keep them having their promise in future, and that the amount
> of time the Wiki Loves Monuments banner is shown will be 50% of the time.
>
> The rest of the outcomes is lousy and they sold us empty boxes. Wiki Loves
> Monuments depends for about 99% on a CentralNotice banner. Most visitors to
> Wikipedia do not visit the main page of a wiki. I do not believe a small
> link to WLM in a large fundraising banner would help or is seen. I do not
> believe that a link in the Thank You letter for donors would work. A
> blogpost will be written anyway, as Wiki Loves Monuments is the largest
> project of the Wikimedia movement, but still it would not reach to the core
> people Wiki Loves Monuments is aiming at. And a social media fire, I have
> no believe in it that WMF would have any control in such and the core
> infrastructure is not under control by WMF.
>
> And still no explanation why it is not possible to move the fundraising
> banner to a month later...
>
> I can only conclude that we have been put off, in Dutch: afgescheept
> worden (literally: being shipped of).
>
> At such having a blocking banner is sad news. A competition is large
> ruined by it.
>
> What I consider the most demotivating is the play the fundraising team of
> WMF has played. I certainly do not consider it fair play. Too many empty
> promises, dividing the community to get less resistance, no fair
> negotiations, usage of the inexperience of volunteers, and more.
>
> And even after explaining the community perspective many times by multiple
> people, I still have the impression some people in WMF still do not really
> get it.
>
> I had the occasion in the past weeks that I spoke with people from WMF who
> are working for the foundation for some years, and I had to explain what
> Wiki Loves Monuments is. (And that was not the first time.) It is the
> largest project of the movement, recognised as largest photo contest in the
> world, and some WMF people do not know or understand. I was so friendly to
> explain it of course, but it gave mixed feelings.
>
> And even after explaining the community perspective many times by multiple
> people, they do not really get it.
>
> Lessons to be learned:
> * Do not assume that the fundraising team takes the best position for the
> movement, they have a target to make.
> * Do not assume the fundraising team plays a fair play. They have a lot of
> weight and use it.
> * Do not assume that their first offer (in case of a blocking banner) is a
> balanced, reasonable and well thought one.
> * Do not expect them to know how much the impact is of something.
> * Do expect them to offer empty shells/boxes/etc and are not impressed by
> those.
> * Say always no if they ask if a blocking banner or two banners at the
> same time is okay. It has a devastating effect on your results. Yes you
> can, some chapters did and that was taken into account seriously.
> * Always have the complete team involved in the communication, and even
> think of asking advisers (from outside WMF) for support and feedback on the
> proposals. Always have someone involved who has years of experience in this
> matter, otherwise you loose and the whole community looses.
>
> But I think the best lesson learned is: with every blocking banner, let
> the community publicly decide what should be chosen.
>
> Romaine
>
>
>
>
> 2015-08-30 14:00 GMT+02:00 Steinsplitter Wiki <steinsplitter-wiki at live.com
> >:
>
>> I 100% agree with rupert's thoughts.
>>
>> Wiki(p|m)edia was and is mad be volunteers, therefore volunteer first
>> should apply. Volunteers are contributing the content for exactly zero
>> dollars per hour. It is all because of free knowledge and other stuff, but
>> not about money. It looks like money is fore some people moor important
>> than free knowledge. It is frustrating...
>>
>> Regards,
>> Steinsplitter
>>
>> > From: rupert.thurner at gmail.com
>> > Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2015 21:35:46 +0200
>> > To: janbart at wikimedia.org; patricio.lorente at gmail.com;
>> me.lyzzy at gmail.com; ubifrieda at gmail.com; jmh649 at gmail.com;
>> darekj at alk.edu.pl; denny.vrandecic at kit.edu; jwales at wikia.com;
>> stu at wikimedia.org
>> > CC: wikilovesmonuments at lists.wikimedia.org;
>> wikimedia-l at lists.wikimedia.org
>> > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki Loves Monuments] Wiki Loves Monuments
>> in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising
>> >
>> > dear board,
>> >
>> > allow me to directly ask you to stop these fundraising persons to spoil
>> > wiki loves monuments because of less than intelligent KPIs. WMF cannot
>> and
>> > should not behave like an elephant in the porcelain shop. there is a
>> simple
>> > technical solution to the problem below, to have a combined banner for
>> WLM
>> > and donation. it is impossible that more money at stake as is covered by
>> > the reserves, isn't it? i am really lacking words here ... the only
>> ones i
>> > could find would not be compliant with the friendly space policy. if we
>> as
>> > movement do not follow through the "volunteer first" rule than it is
>> better
>> > to dissolve WMF, or split it in two parts, one holding the rights to the
>> > web URLs, i.e. right to banner, the other one employing all the people
>> > doing some work.
>> >
>> > best,
>> > rupert
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 3:49 PM, Andrea Zanni <zanni.andrea84 at gmail.com
>> >
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > Hello everyone.
>> > > Sorry for the long mail but we wanted to explain the situation for
>> > > Wikimedia Italia.
>> > > The conversation is going on and it's better to clear some important
>> > > points.
>> > >
>> > > In the second week of August Wikimedia Italia has been contacted by
>> > > Kalliope Tsouroupidou and later by Jessica Robell, who explained that
>> the
>> > > Wikimedia Foundation was planning to have a fundraising campaign in
>> Italy
>> > > in September.
>> > > We have been surprised by that, since Wiki Loves Monuments is
>> well-known to
>> > > run in September, and it has been like that for years.
>> > > Moreover, there has been a similar clash in 2014:  we discussed for
>> several
>> > > days, and in the end we reached a compromise, and the FR banners went
>> live
>> > > just for the last days.
>> > > It was not perfect, but we had WLM banners for almost all September.
>> > > This year the clash is on the whole month of September. Given the
>> history,
>> > > and the very fact that Wikimedia Italia has planned WLM and written
>> so in
>> > > the FDC application, we feel that WMIT has not been negligible in
>> matters
>> > > of
>> > > communication.
>> > > We are not *happy* with the situation,
>> > > the very existence of the clash, the fact that all this appeared in
>> the
>> > > middle of August, while we were all on holiday and just few weeks
>> before
>> > > the beginning of WLM.
>> > > We just decided not to pick up a fight, as we believe in constructive
>> > > conversation and negotiation.
>> > > The agreement we reached is very painful for WMIT and WLM: it's just
>> better
>> > > than not having the banners at all, or to have them for just a few
>> days in
>> > > the middle of September.
>> > > Conversations with the FR team has been firm, but polite: this does
>> not
>> > > mean that we are happy about what is happening.
>> > > Moreover, we will have to discuss with FDC to renegotiate expected
>> results
>> > > for WLM in 2015.
>> > >
>> > > Having the fundraising campaign in September in Italy has a clear
>> negative
>> > > impact on Wiki Loves Monuments, the largest project of Wikimedia
>> Italia.
>> > > This will not only likely reduce the number of participants and
>> uploaded
>> > > pictures, but will also put us in a difficult position in front of our
>> > > sponsors and partners, including 200+ municipalities, 100+ cultural
>> > > institutions, and some major partners, like FIAF (the Federation of
>> Italian
>> > > photographers' associations), ICOM (the International Council of
>> Museums),
>> > > the Toscana Foto Festival (a major photo festival), Touring Club
>> Italiano
>> > > (the largest Italian touristic association), and others. WMIT spends
>> > > thousands of euros in WLM each year - not because we waste money, but
>> > > because we have higher stakes.
>> > >
>> > > This year, we will have in the Italian Jury international renowned
>> > > photographers like (prabably: yet to be confirmed) Steve McCurry (
>> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_McCurry) and Franco Fontana (
>> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco_Fontana).
>> > > This year, in June, we were received by several politicians from the
>> > > Italian Parliament for an official meeting regarding the law we are
>> > > fighting
>> > > as WMIT.
>> > >
>> > > Because of the specific challenges we face, WLM in Italy goes beyond
>> being
>> > > a photographic competition and is also an opportunity to create
>> > > relationships and advocate for the freedom of taking pictures of
>> monuments.
>> > >
>> > > Italy does not have "freedom of panorama".
>> > > Worst, Italy does not have freedom of panorama for any kind of
>> monuments,
>> > > even if copyright has expired.
>> > > We need to ask for permission to make pictures of monuments. For.
>> Every.
>> > > Monument.
>> > > We have to create lists of monuments to be photographed. There is no
>> > > official list of monuments in Italy.
>> > >
>> > > There is *extensive* documentation here:
>> > >
>> > >
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Italian_cultural_heritage_on_the_Wikimedia_projects
>> > >
>> > > This is very important to know to put in perspective WLM Italy stats:
>> > > http://stats.wikilovesmonuments.cl/italy. As an example, it is the
>> reason
>> > > why we have so many participants who contribute for few pics each. In
>> 2014
>> > > alone, we had 1038 uploaders, but we were only 6th in terms of number
>> of
>> > > photos.
>> > >
>> > > The global fundraising is essential to our movement.
>> > > It funds Wikipedia operations, software development, the Wikimedia
>> > > Foundation, many chapters and affiliates, and, of course, also Wiki
>> Loves
>> > > Monuments (even tough in Italy it is primarily funded from other
>> sources).
>> > > The global fundraising is meant to support the Wikimedia movement:
>> but, for
>> > > this very reason, it is a pity to have it clashing to one of the very
>> > > activities it is meant to support.
>> > > Especially since we are not talking about a 2 hours editathon in a
>> small
>> > > library in the middle of nowhere, but about an international
>> competition
>> > > who ended up in the Guinnes World Records, bringing thousands of
>> pictures
>> > > to the Wikimedia projects.
>> > > We understand that fundraising is not an easy job, especially when it
>> is
>> > > done on a global level. Yet we feel obliged to use donors money to
>> build
>> > > and deliver the best projects we can: firstly out of respect for all
>> the
>> > > people who decided to donate their time, their money or their career
>> to the
>> > > movement; secondly because a badly executed projects could also have a
>> > > negative impact on the next fundraising campaigns.
>> > > We are all part of the same movement: the work of the WMF fundraising
>> team
>> > > is strictly linked to that of the community. We would like to be
>> confident
>> > > that what is happening now won't happen for a third time, and that in
>> the
>> > > future we will be able to communicate more effectively and work more
>> > > collaboratively.
>> > > We really are looking forward a more effective cooperation with WMF
>> and all
>> > > other Wikimedia Affiliates: collaboration is the very pillar of all
>> the
>> > > Wikimedia movement.
>> > >
>> > > We would like to thank all the people who supported us and gave us
>> opinions
>> > > and advices on this mailing list and elsewhere.
>> > > We are very proud to be part of such a great community, and we would
>> like
>> > > to see it become wider and bigger.
>> > >
>> > > Andrea Zanni
>> > > for the board of Wikimedia Italia
>> > > _______________________________________________
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