[Wiki Loves Monuments] [Wikimedia-AM members] Tech question: 2 WLM templates of different country contests on same file

Arman Musikyan arman_musikyan at mail.ru
Thu Sep 19 13:19:46 UTC 2013

 Hi dear Lodewijk,

I turn to you as a one of most up-loader photos in the world. I think it is no correct, when unwillingly users moves to other arrangements. I couldn't understand Azerbaijan country's people behavior. How can they explain, what most of participants in wlm.az ( http://stats.wikilovesmonuments.cl/?pais=azerbaijan , also see attached pictures) are Armenians. Also, most of moved picture names written by Armenian letters.

In attached statistic you cans see "A.arpi.a, Vacio, Vagharsh, Aydinyan, Ghulyan, Vahag851 users. They most uploaders after Interface and Urek Meniashvili, and because they are wlm.az organizers, A.arpi.a becomes most up-loader for Azerbaijan country. Is it correct ?

For me it unjustness and need to correct it. I can understand, when this action do with new users, but when they do with wlm.az organizers, it's just shame for their country.

If Azerbaijan's think, monuments in Nagorno-Karabakh theirs, they can go to this place and take photos. It's their problem. But they just stolen 149 pictures from Armenian WLM. It's unjust.

I require to reset all mention users pictures history to first state.

Best regards,
Arman M.

Четверг, 19 сентября 2013, 14:10 +02:00 от Lodewijk <lodewijk at effeietsanders.org>:
>Hi Vacio,
>I don't quite understand your explanation - and I fail to see the merit of your 'solution'. 
>First, you say that you get a lot of complaints of Armenian participants because their photos are tagged with an Azerbaijanian template. To me, this suggests that somehow, the buildings on those photos are recognized by the Azerbaijan government as monuments. That just means the Azerbaijan government thinks those are important buildings. 
>But then you say that the  wlm.az competition only lets one city participate (probably because the Azerbaijan government only recognized monuments in that city. That confuses me, because it seems to contradict with your earlier statement that you get a lot of complaints. 
>The situation as it is (or should be) now is, that people can add heritage templates when a government recognizes that building as a monument. This is very helpful in many situations because many people simply forget to add this information. This includes a crazy situation where the Republic of Ireland (which does not participate by the way) would recognize a monument in the middle of Azerbaijan, then also this could be added. It is simply a sign of appreciation and matter of fact. 
>Also, when a picture is 1) a monument recognized according to Country B's national definition and 2) fulfills the criteria of a given competition (submitted in the right month, license etc.), a template indicating that the picture participates in Country B's national WLM competition can be added. 
>Based on these templates, the relevant categories will be added. 
>But: this can only be /additional/. Templates like this should not be removed for other countries (with of course obvious exceptions, such as if there is a clear mistake etc - like last year when someone submitted the Eiffel tower in (I think) the Indian competition). 
>I don't see good arguments to change this. I know this might be confusing and upsetting to some people who feel strongly about these cases, but then we should make an effort to explain that Wikimedia Commons, like Wikipedia, has a sense of Neutral Point of View. We don't decide which country is right, or even whether a country exists. Especially in these cases, we're focused on documenting these buildings, which clearly both the Azerbaijan and Nagorno-Karabakh government agree upon that they are important cultural heritage. 
>2013/9/19 Vacio  < vacio at riseup.net >
>>Dear all,
>>I lack the technical background to comment on the discussion
      below. I just want to say this: I am frankly not so much concerned
      about which flag is placed where, or which country is mentioned
      where. I am only concerned that I get a lot of complains from
      Armenian participants of the contest, who see their photos appear
      in the  wlm.az category rather than  wlm.am (at the result of manual
      change of templates in their photos).
>>Just to make clear why this bothers them. It is technically
      impossible for people who live in Armenia or Nagorno-Karabakh to
      travel to Azerbaijan (let's say in case they become winners of wlm.az ). (There are other issues as well, for instance,  wlm.az seems to have only included the monuments of  one
        city of Nagorno-Karabakh, while  wlm.am included  4
        provinces ).
>>This means that they are practically excluded from the contest
      (they have no chances to win). So, I suggest, that we, the WLM
      community, make a decision on how to solve this. 
>>I personally can think of two options:
>>* We don't allow anyone to manually add templates to WLM images,
      at least until 30 September
>>* We allow users to add only an alternative template which will
      not change hidden categories or any other metadata (I mean an
      alternative template of {{Cultural Heritage Azerbaijan}}).
>>Please let us know if you can think of anything else.
>>On 09/17/13 01:37 , Platonides wrote:
      16/09/13 16:35, Aleksey Chalabyan wrote:
>>>>Dear all, and especially those who provide
        us with tools for running WLM
>>>>If on same page we have 2 templates, from different country
>>>>with different ID, do you think scripts/bot may run into issue?
>>>>Will those tools successfully process both of templates, assign
>>>>necessary categories, show up correctly in counters, voting
        tools, etc?
>>>>Example of such image is:
>>>>Thanks beforehand,
>>>The tools at  http://toolserver.org/~platonides/wlm2013/ will
      consider only the first template.
>>>Last year the database was designed to support a second country,
      but it was so exceptional that it wasn't implemented. I think we
      identified a single case of multicountry monumentness before the
      contest, plus perhaps a couple more found later for some rivers.
>>>I can easily add detection of multiple countries, the trickiness
      starts when querying it, which not only results in more complex
      checks for the database, but it's not even clear how it should be
      defined: What should be the answer for "How many images have am
      and az together?" Should Ամարասի_վանք,_վանքային_համալիր_....jpg be
      counted once (as for "How many images are in total?") or be the
      sum of images of both countries?
>>>How to count the number of countries in which a user did photos,
>>>If the problem is limited to monuments in Azerbaijan and Armenia
      contests, it may be simpler for the bot to detect that case and
      internally map those images to an am+az pseudo-country.
>>>PS: I agree with Multichill, renaming a monument template (or
      adding new variants such as redirects to it) will make the bot to
      suddenly not detect the monument identifier.
>>>Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list
>>>WikiLovesMonuments at lists.wikimedia.org
>>Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list
>>WikiLovesMonuments at lists.wikimedia.org
>Members-list mailing list
>Members-list at wikimedia.am

Arman Musikyan
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