[Wiki Loves Monuments] Long Term - something a bit different

Lodewijk lodewijk at effeietsanders.org
Sun Nov 4 15:59:07 UTC 2012

Hi Pete,

that's an interesting way to look at things! I think it would be helpful if
you bring this to the evaluation table as seperate ideas (the combination
makes it harder to grasp), but some comments from my perspective (and not
necessarily the Truth):

* I don't agree that the yearly cycle (it's not a one-month thing as we all
know - it takes several months to prepare the list, which is just another
phase in the cycle) is a weakness - I actually see it as a strength. It
allows volunteers to commit for a limited period of time and still
accomplish a lot in real life. That also means you get in touch with a new
group of volunteers who you will otherwise not see become active in
* I don't agree the emphasis is on bigness. I know that this has been used
in PR, and we used it too often perhaps in our messaging, but our emphasis
is on getting more content and people for Wikipedia.
* I don't agree that getting the monument lists for Wikipedia (including
all its details) is not a goal of the WMF. While the topic may not be a
priority, facilitating volunteers to gather and improve on content (which
the list creation is), is one of the goals. Not that it matters whether it
is a WMF goal or not :) (it is mostly a chapter and volunteer run program)
* You suggest that we should morph WLM into a Wiki Loves Everything. I
personally believe (and we explained this several times in our
presentations) that the focus is one of the key success factors. It makes
it more tangible for participants, and allows outreach in groups of
potential volunteers we otherwise wouldn't reach. It wouldn't hurt to have
multiple contests ongoing at the same time though!

I'm curious why you think there is a "lack of real success". Perhaps you
can elaborate on that on the feedback page.

The thought I definitely do like is the idea to have multiple contests. I
don't think we should immediately run these internationally though, but
rather try them out nationally, and build from that - similarly as we did
with Wiki Loves Monuments. I would suggest though to move a bit away from
the buildings and make it clearly distinct. Keep the success factors in
mind though (easy access, fun, helping Wikipedia etc.).


2012/11/4 Peter Ekman <pdekman at gmail.com>

> re Lodewijk
> I do think  that WLM is ultimately going to have to change focus, and
> some sort of permanent organization will be helpful here.  In
> particular, I think WLM is getting too big to be sustainable (over
> several years) and that we've aimed too much for bigness.  Let's look
> at our goals, strengths and weaknesses and see where we can take this
> in an on-going, multiyear basis.  My suggestion is that it be a hub
> for encouraging and organizing many types of photo contests on Commons
> - big and small.
> Current Goals
> 1. To recruit and keep photographers and editors for Wikimedia
> projects (Key WMF goal)
> 2. To document "monuments" and other cultural heritage (wonderful goal
> - perhaps a bit narrow, not a key WMF goal)
> Strengths
> 1. Access to Wikipedia banners for recruitment, publicizing
> 2. Bot and technical processes needed for contests, lists
> 3. Federal style organization across national boundaries
> 4. A record of success - which of course can lead to confidence among
> editors and the public and thus more success. "Nothing succeeds like
> success!"
> Weaknesses
> 1. An emphasis on big for the sake of bigness - unsustainable growth.
> 2. Trying to mix some quite different things (e.g. situations in
> Italy, Switzerland, India, Ghana) into one big contest
> 3. Once a year focus
> 4. (Perhaps) Lack of real success/emphasis on keeping newly recruited
> photographers (we do about the same as other projects in percentage
> terms)
> I suggest:
> 1. Keeping the goal of recruitment of new editors/photogs and
> strengthening it to emphasize "keeping" the new recruits.
> 2. Broaden the goal of documenting "monuments" to anything about
> "cultural heritage" or, ultimately, to anything that large numbers of
> people like to photograph in contests - become "Wikimedia Loves
> Photographs" instead of "WL Monuments"
> 3. Form a permanent organization, likely on Commons or a new site
> closely related to it, to have many contests, at different times of
> the year, on slightly different topics, of different lengths.
> Gradually increasing the scope of the contests to all topics of
> interest to photographers.  (Perhaps at first, WL Historical
> Buildings, WL Cemeteries (for a week at Halloween!), WL Public Art,
> etc. until we get to WL Wildlife, WL Oceans or WL Ships, and maybe
> even WL towns in Pennsylvania or Transylvania)
> 4. Concentrate on recruiting different people to organize the
> different contests, and giving them the tools, expertise, and some
> standards to meet their similar (but not identical) goals.
> There's a lot here, and I'm not interested in beating my head against
> the wall if other folks aren't interested, but ultimately I think this
> is the direction WLM will take if it's going to be sustainable.
> All the best,
> Pete Ekman
> User:Smallbones
> > 2012/11/4 Lodewijk <lodewijk at effeietsanders.org>
> >
> >> (changing the title to give it its own thread)
> >>
> >> I think this discussion would indeed be best on the feedback page. But I
> >> will respond to some of the points already here.
> >>
> >> First off: I personally do not think this will be an ever lasting event.
> >> I think that a country can only organize Wiki Loves Monuments 3 or 4
> times
> >> in a row without exhausting enthusiasm about it. I actually have the
> >> feeling next year (2013) might very well be the last year that we
> organize
> >> it on an international level. But I hope someone will proof me wrong!
> >>
> >> I agree with Yaroslav that a real life organization would be a
> >> possibility. We don't need that though. Actually, I think it would be a
> >> worse situation than what we're in right now. It would cause a lot of
> >> bureaucracy (conflict of interest: I would be one of the people who
> would
> >> have to review the bylaws in the Affiliations committee).
> >>
> >> An ongoing project on Commons to coordinate heritage projects would
> >> perhaps be a good idea. Commons isn't exactly suitable for it as it also
> >> involves a lot of other things - but it is probably better than the
> >> alternatives. Outreachwiki would drive us too far from the content side
> of
> >> things etc. I don't think it would be a priority of myself, but I can
> >> definitely see the added value. I do not think it could or should
> replace
> >> current efforts, but it should be complementary.
> >>
> >> Some people suggested over time that Wiki Loves Monuments is a GLAM
> >> project. Everyone who knows me, knows that I'm no fan of acronyms and
> >> especially not this one. If you would use the alternative 'cultural
> >> heritage institutions' (or if you prefer acronyms: CHI) it indeed fits
> the
> >> definition well. However, at the same time it is quite different from
> all
> >> the other initiatives that are ongoing in this field by Wikimedia.
> >>
> >> Wiki Loves Monuments is mostly public facing and not institution-facing.
> >> We're focused on participation by individuals, and while the
> institutions
> >> that provide the infrastructure (the lists) are critical - they are
> >> primarily a tool to reach that goal. That is why I usually consider it
> more
> >> a seperate thing from traditional cultural heritage initiatives in
> >> Wikimedia - but it has many interfaces. Every national Wiki Loves
> Monuments
> >> competition has probably one or several Cultural Heritage
> collaborations.
> >> In the Netherlands we collaborate with the Museum association (prize
> >> sponsor), National heritage board (providing the lists), a
> >> monument/heritage association (networking partner, outreach and prize
> >> sponsor), the Architecture museum (prize sponsor), Open Monument Days
> >> (networking partner and outreach) etc. In other countries you will
> likely
> >> see similar collaborations especially in the second/third year develop.
> >>
> >> Anyway - I definitely cheer upon Poli's great idea to have a cleanup
> >> project. I have been doing a bunch of that myself recently on some
> >> countries (India, Canada, Argentina) and I think it could use some
> help. I
> >> think Maarten sent recently an email about it (now WLM is over, what's
> >> next).
> >>
> >> Yaroslav, Polimerek: would you like to volunteer to set up such portal
> on
> >> Commons?
> >>
> >> Best,
> >> Lodewijk
> >>
> _______________________________________________
> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list
> WikiLovesMonuments at lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments
> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/private/wikilovesmonuments/attachments/20121104/24b291d1/attachment.html>

More information about the WikiLovesMonuments mailing list