[Translators-l] Tech News translators: dates in recurring items

Tue Jan 24 00:11:09 UTC 2017

According to w:fr:WP:TYPO
<https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Conventions_typographiques#NON_C.C3.89SURE_NOMBRE_NOM>,
we should use non-breakable spaces in French long format dates.

2017-01-23 19:36 GMT+01:00 Philippe Verdy <verdy_p at wanadoo.fr>:

> There'a absolutely no need of non-breaking spaces in French dates ! The
> numeric format "dd/mm/yyyy" has no space at all. The long format "dd
> monthname yyyy" uses standard spaces for word separation (they are
> breakable). And there's NEVER any space in the middel of the year.
>
> However the French non-breaking spaces are need for punctuations (before
> "!", "?", ":" or in the middle of « guillemets » (standard French quotation
> marks) or in numbers as group separators. These should ideally be narrower
> than standard spaces (i.e. NNBSP U+203F rather than NBSP U+00A0). But none
> of these occur in French dates.
>
>
> 2017-01-23 19:09 GMT+01:00 Pols12 <poltron54 at gmail.com>:
>
>> According to me, it’s a real improvement.
>>
>> How can we edit or suggest an edit to the date format?
>> Indeed, we used to use non-breaking spaces in French dates.
>> Pols12
>>
>> 2017-01-23 8:45 GMT+01:00 mathieu stumpf guntz <
>> psychoslave at culture-libre.org>:
>>
>>> Well, I don't have much knowledge about calendar living practices beyond
>>> Greogorian calendar, sorry if I misunderstood your problem. Does that also
>>> apply to day names, or just month names?
>>>
>>> Would you be kind enough to give me some concrete examples of what you
>>> would like to obtain and what are possible side effect you are concern
>>> about, with some explanation and latin transcription (if possible)?
>>>
>>> I still believe adding other calendar support might have some interest.
>>> But maybe it would be more relevant to continue this aspect of the
>>> discussion on the phabricator ticket
>>> <https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T155824>.
>>>
>>> Le 20/01/2017 à 13:40, Haytham Abulela ALY a écrit :
>>>
>>> Hi Mathieu,
>>> My comment is not related to Assyrian or Aramaic. The issue is that
>>> countries of the Levant and Mesopotamia have applied the names of the
>>> Assyrian/Aramaic calendar to the Gregorian calendar in Arabic letters. This
>>> has become a norm for decades. I think that all that needs to be done in
>>> this regard is to update the list from which the string of code suggested
>>> retrieves values, and the string of code shall remain as is without any
>>> changes necessary. My concern here would be that this might affect values
>>> in cells of tables, since the string of text will comprise of two or three
>>> words. If this matter becomes a nuisance, we may ignore it as the current
>>> state of affairs is suitable for the majority of Arabic speakers. I was
>>> trying to have an inclusive approach instead of favouring one format over
>>> another.
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> On 20 January 2017 at 02:25, mathieu stumpf guntz <
>>> psychoslave at culture-libre.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Saluton Haytham,
>>>>
>>>> If you look at the documentation
>>>> <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Extension:ParserFunctions#.23time>,
>>>> non-Gregorian formating is supported. Now having a deeper look at it, it
>>>> seems that Assyrian calendar
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assyrian_calendar> is not yet in the
>>>> set of supported calendars, so a phabricator ticket should be filled here I
>>>> think, shouldn't it. I don't know what is the the ISO 639-3 you would like
>>>> to use "*aii*" (Assyrian Neo-Aramaic) or *"arc*" (Aramaic language),
>>>> but in both case it seems that localization is missing
>>>> <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Psychoslave/asiria_kalendaro> for
>>>> already provided month names.
>>>> So for the sake of the example, let's say there was a "xaF" formatting
>>>> code which would provide an Assyrian calendar full month name, then as far
>>>> as I understand, you would like to use:
>>>>
>>>> {{#time:xaF|$date1|aii}} ({{#time:F|$date1|aii}})
>>>>
>>>> Thank you Johan for the feedback request. We have here and there
>>>> complaints when staff is argued to not take enough into account community
>>>> advises, so it seems fair to also emphasize actions when they are done with
>>>> a community feedback in the loop.
>>>> Le 19/01/2017 à 18:58, Haytham Aly a écrit :
>>>>
>>>> Hi Johan,
>>>>
>>>> This idea is brilliant.
>>>>
>>>> My own concern for Arabic is that there are two major ways for
>>>> displaying Gregorian month names; transliteration as well as the Assyrian
>>>> names. Usually transliterated names suffice, but I prefer using both
>>>> divided by a slash. This is due to differences in official use, since
>>>> transliterated names are used in Egypt, Sudan, Libya, Yemen, and Gulf
>>>> states; while Assyrian names are used in Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and
>>>> Palestine. Could this automation function render both or just the common
>>>> transliterated month names? It would be a bonus to have both displayed,
>>>> though only transliterated month names would suffice.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Haytham Abulela Aly
>>>>
>>>> Freelance Translator
>>>> Creative Translation
>>>> "Creative & Confident"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Certified member of the Society of Translators and Interpreters of British Columbia (STIBC) (EN>AR)
>>>> Arab Professional Translators' Society member (#10850)
>>>> Certified member at Egyptian Translators Association (EGYTA)
>>>> Registered at ProZ.com and LinkedIn.com
>>>>
>>>> On 19/01/2017 8:31 AM, Johan Jönsson wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>
>>>> TL;DR: Dates in items that are in the newsletter every week could be in
>>>> a format that means you could get a 100% in the translation memory and not
>>>> have to change the days and months every week. Do you want this?
>>>>
>>>> Longer version:
>>>>
>>>> Based on Mathieu's suggestion, I've tested adding dates within <tvar>
>>>> tags. This makes it more complicated the first time you translate, but
>>>> should mean that you can then use a 100% match from the translation memory
>>>> every time and just click on it the same way you do for any other content
>>>> that stays exactly the same, instead of manually having to change the days
>>>> and months every new week.
>>>>
>>>> It looks like this:
>>>> {#time:<tvar|defualtformat>d xg</>|<tvar|date1>2017-01-24</
>>>> >|<tvar|format_language_code>{{CURRENTCONTENTLANGUAGE}}</>}} which
>>>> means that I get this when I translate:
>>>> {{#time:$defualtformat|$date1|$format_language_code}}.
>>>>
>>>> For Swedish, I can just keep it like that: Where the English original
>>>> said "24 January" the Swedish translation will say "24 januari".
>>>>
>>>> Some languages write dates in another format. For Mandarin Chinese, the
>>>> first time I do a translation I need to change it to
>>>> {{#time:n月j日|$date1|$format_language_code}} (and the same for $date2
>>>> and $date3). I imagine RTL languages will need to change something too the
>>>> first time they translate this, for example.
>>>>
>>>> All possible options are described here:
>>>> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Extension:ParserFunctions#.23time
>>>>
>>>> Pro: Less burden for returning translators. You translate this once,
>>>> whether you change the date format or not, then you just click on the
>>>> translation in the translation memory next week.
>>>>
>>>> Con: More complicated. More difficult for new translators, especially
>>>> if the standard format doesn't match the norms of their language.
>>>>
>>>> The question: Do you want this, or did you prefer it the way it was?
>>>> This is all about making it as easy as possible for you, so you decide.
>>>>
>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Transla
>>>> te&group=page-Tech%2FNews%2F2017%2F04&action=page
>>>>
>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tech/News/2017/04
>>>>
>>>> //Johan Jönsson
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>>
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>>> --
>>> Haytham Abulela ALY Certified member of the Society of Translators and
>>> Interpreters of British Columbia (STIBC) (EN>AR)
>>> <http://www.stibc.org/page/certified%20member%20directory/ezlist_member_1f249e57-9d21-47fc-8d39-11a26d993a66.aspx?_s=http%3a%2f%2fwww.stibc.org%2fpage%2fcertified+member+directory.aspx> Arab
>>> Professional Translators' Society certified member (#10850)
>>> <http://www.arabtranslators.org/Certification/certified_members_801_900.aspx> Certified
>>> member at Egyptian Translators Association (EGYTA)
>>> <http://www.egyta.com/k2-showcase/k2-latest-item/letter-h/letter-hn> Profile
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