[Translators-l] Possibly disabling some AggregateGroups

Philippe Verdy verdy_p at wanadoo.fr
Fri Apr 14 00:10:22 UTC 2017

I think the whole separate concept of "tranlation aggregate groups" is
absolutely not needed (and was ill-designed since first time, without
thinking about any form of scalability), this feature could just use the
existing categories: just mark existing category pages as translatable, and
it will create implicitly an aggregate group. Then translated pages in that
category are automatically sorted within translated categories.

Note that categy pages ARE translatable too (see many examples in Meta or
Commons or many other multilingual wikis outside Wikimedia).

No more "special page" for this feature. Special pages are just needed for
marking pages for translations, and translated categories will be
automatically created as well (their description may still use translation
units), using language fallbacks by default for mising translated category
names and category descriptions marked with <translate></translate> tags
and submitted to the translation tool (by existing users with "translation
admin" privilege).

No special navigation needed, and we can use the standard search tools for
articles and categories. An addon on translated categories could provide
aggregate statistics, just like we have singular statistics displayed at
top of translated pages, and the "Translate" tab replacing the "Edit" tab
on pages or categories already marked for translations.

We also can use the existing "category tree" extension, or just continue
browsing categories with groups of 200 items, and with sort keys like we
have today.

Like today with aggregate groups, aggregate statistics will still require
some low-priority background job to refresh them regularly (singular
statistics for one page only will be made first nearly synchronously)
except that they will use translated pages collected in categories, to
compute completion levels per page, and then for all pages listed in a
given category and other stats combining pages in all its subcategories and
descendants (taking care of avoiding double counts).

Ideally Work should be done to allow easier marking of pages for
translations (with the VisualEditor), but this is a separate task. If this
was completed, and the translation memory was smarter to detect translation
units that are split, we could get rid of the "transaltion admin"
privilege. The translation parser should also be able to split
automatically lists of items (ordered numbered lists, unordered ulleted
lists, definition lists) and automatically split tables by
cell/header/caption. The "<translate>" markers should become invisible in
the VisualEditor (replaced by hover events showing where translation units
have been delimited such as showing a border and an icon in the border that
allows enabling/disabling a translation unit, or split it by sentence. The
VisualEditor should also be able to detect too long translation units (long
paragraphs with multiple sentences) and suggest places to split them.

With such behavior, anyone could work on source pages. The task for
translation admins would just be to check the number of fuzzy units or the
deletion or complete replacement or of units by new ones. Paragraphs could
be restructured, moved/split more easily without breaking existing
translation units. But they would no longer need to have to manage
aggregate groups with specific tools.

2017-04-14 0:42 GMT+02:00 Nick Wilson (Quiddity) <nwilson at wikimedia.org>:

> Hi Haytham,
> Just to be clear, I was not proposing disabling *translation* of those
> pages. I just propose removing them as aggregate groups, because they're
> historical pages (and need to be discouraged for translation anyway, a
> different task on another slow/massive page).
> Is there anything specific about the AggregateGroups feature that you find
> useful, in relation to these historical pages?
> Hi Philippe,
> Yup, that's the ideal solution (and tracked in
> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T90511 ), but in the meantime, I was
> just wondering if there was any benefit to anyone, in leaving these
> historic pages as AggregateGroups, or, if it would just be happy cleanup
> work for me to remove them. :-)
> Thanks both.
> On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 2:21 PM, Haytham Aly <haytham.hammam at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> Hi Nick,
>> I would request keeping Grants:IEG, Grants:PEG, Grants:TPS, Program
>> Capacity and Learning, and Research Labs2 for Arabic.
>> Regards,
>> Haytham Abulela Aly
>> Freelance Translator
>> Creative Translation
>> "Creative & Confident"
>> Certified member of the Society of Translators and Interpreters of British Columbia (STIBC) (EN>AR)
>> Arab Professional Translators' Society member (#10850)
>> Certified member at Egyptian Translators Association (EGYTA)
>> Registered at ProZ.com and LinkedIn.com
>> On 13/04/2017 1:19 PM, Nick Wilson (Quiddity) wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> Re: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:AggregateGroups
>> That page takes a long time to load on my old machine.
>> I'm wondering if I can/should just boldly disable(delete) some of the
>> older groups?
>> Or, are these AggregateGroups still useful to you as translators, even
>> though the content is {{historical}} ?
>> Specifically:
>> "Grants:IEG",
>> "GLAMing Madrid Challenge",
>> "Grants:PEG",
>> "Grants:TPS",
>> "Program Capacity and Learning",
>> "Research Labs2",
>> "Stewards elections 2015",
>> "Wikimedia Foundation elections 2013",
>> "Wikimedia Foundation elections 2015",
>> "Wikipedia 15".
>> That's all I can see that's obviously outdated.
>> Removing those few won't reduce the size of the Special page by much, but
>> I suspect it is useful cleanup to do regardless. I just don't want to
>> overlook a use-case!
>> Thanks for your input :)
>> --
>> Nick Wilson (Quiddity)
>> Community Liaison, WMF
>> _______________________________________________
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> --
> Nick Wilson (Quiddity)
> Community Liaison, WMF
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