No subject
Fri Dec 10 13:58:20 UTC 2010
rustrating and disappointing experience. Despite my best efforts we=0Adid n=
ot receive a completely translated central banner=0Ain Welsh and clicking o=
n the central banner=0Anever took us to the Welsh language version of the d=
onation landing page, at=0Aleast for the vast majority of cy users, those l=
iving in the UK.=0A
=0A
=0ATo describe in detail:
=0A
=0ATranslation links for translators
=0AThis year you decided not to include translation links from the central =
notice=0Ato meta because this was drawing people away from the donation lin=
k. I'm not=0Ataking issue with that decision. As you know the disadvantage =
of this is that=0Apotential translators do not know where to translate, whi=
ch is potentially=0Aaggravating for those users (of which more below). One =
way of mitigating this=0Adifficulty would have been to post on the communit=
y page an invitation and link=0Ato the translation tab of the Fundraiser 20=
10 hub, specifically inviting users=0Ato translate, when the campaign went =
permanently live. Assuming that the=0Acentral banner will lack the translat=
ion links=0Anext year too I recommend you do this next year.
=0A
=0AThe link to the fundraiser translation which was included as a banner=0A=
on meta was very useful by the way - please can we have this next year too.
=0A
=0Ai-10n issues
=0AIt does not appear that i-10n issues were considered during the preparat=
ion and=0Atesting of the fundraiser either at Wikimedia Foundation or at an=
y of the=0Achapters. Each chapter had its own landing pages with its own me=
ssages. No=0Amechanism was put in place to allow all language wikis within =
the geographical=0Aarea of the chapter to localise these chapter-specific m=
essages. It was only=0Awhen this issue was raised by the wikis affected tha=
t this was addressed. Casey=0Abrown set up some translated pages for indivi=
dual combinations of=0Alanguage/chapter, at their request. This was done on=
an ad hoc basis, it being=0Adown to each language wiki to understand the p=
roblem and request action. This=0Aissue was discussed on the l-translators =
list but not all translators subscribe=0Ato the list (especially not those =
who are first-time translators at meta). I=0Arequested that somebody who kn=
ew the ins and outs of this issue write some=0Ageneral advice about this on=
meta itself. I was disappointed that my request=0Awas not answered.=20
=0A
=0AI recommend that when further action is needed by translators, to get th=
eir=0Atranslations applied, then notes about this should be posted where we=
are=0Alikely to see them - such as on the relevant translation pages at me=
ta.=20
=0A
=0AImage format
=0AAfter having translated various messages specific to Wikimedia UK=0Aand =
Casey Brown having published them it was still not possible to see them=0Ab=
ecause of a technical issue with the banner,=0Aapparently caused by its bei=
ng done as an image on Wikimedia UK.=0AAs I understand it the image format =
performed better during the testing and so=0Awas chosen. No consideration w=
hatsoever had been given to the issue of=0Alocalisation of image formats.
=0A
=0AUnfortunately it appears that there was only one person at WikiMedia UK=
=0Awho was in a position to create the correct banner=0Aimages with 'Read N=
ow' localised and linking to the localised WikiMedia UK=0Alanding pages. Th=
is one person was unfortunately too busy to do this as I=0Aunderstand it. I=
had hoped that we would get this done by Christmas=0Abut it never was done=
. I am quite disappointed that my last e-mail of concerning=0Athis has stil=
l not been answered, leaving me still in the dark to some=0Aextent.=A0 In a=
ny case he would have had to attend to each language=0Aindividually, meanin=
g that only those languages requesting this would have been=0Aable to be fi=
xed.
=0A
=0APlease make sure that you use localisable formats in future.
=0A
=0ADisregard of non-state language wikis
=0AI guess that the amount of money that you could raise from the wikis of=
=0Anon-state languages is usually small so from the point of view of an eff=
icient=0Afund-raiser all this is unimportant. But from my point of view fun=
draiser=0Acentral notices appearing wholly or partly in a language which is=
not the wiki=0Alanguage are counter-productive. Rather than encouraging us=
ers to donate they=0Adiscourage donation. You did not receive a donation fr=
om me this year, as I was=0Awaiting to be able to do this via the central b=
anner.=0A
=0A
=0AWorse than that however is that these central notices appearing in Engli=
sh or=0Astate languages are intrusive and alienating, and in my opinion dam=
age these=0Awikis. It creates a them and us mentality, reinforcing the view=
that the users=0Aof these wikis do not 'own' them. Usually central notices=
are translated=0Aquickly by me to avoid any appearing in English. It was v=
ery frustrating to do=0Amany hours of work on the fundraiser, only for most=
of it not to appear via the=0Acentral banner.=A0 The whole experience was=
=0Avery discouraging.
=0A
=0ANext year=0A=0AI write all the above in the hope that next year's=0Afund=
raiser can be improved. I realise that all involved, volunteers and paid=0A=
staff, are working under a lot of pressure and that there was no intention =
to=0Aaggravate the readers and translators of the smaller wikis.=A0 Some of=
the=0Asmaller wikis do not have enough manpower to translate all the stuff=
produced=0Aby WMF, either in a timely fashion, or at all.=A0 It was a sham=
e that=0Atechnical issues prevented the=A0 hard work of those of us who did=
translate=0Athe fundraiser from being put to use. Since I know that I was =
not the only=0Aperson who had difficulties this year I am copying this mess=
age to the=0Atranslators-l list.
=0A
=0ARegards,
=0AEleri James (Lloffiwr), Wales=0A=0A
--- On Sat, 8/1/11, Philippe Beaudette <pbeaudette at wikimedia.org> wrote:
From: Philippe Beaudette <pbeaudette at wikimedia.org>
Subject: [Translators-l] Thank you
To: "Wikimedia Translators" <translators-l at lists.wikimedia.org>, "Translati=
on committee and coordinators" <transcom at lists.wikimedia.org>
Cc: "Sue Gardner" <sgardner at wikimedia.org>, "Zack Exley" <zexley at wikimedia.=
org>, "Megan Hernandez" <mhernandez at wikimedia.org>
Date: Saturday, 8 January, 2011, 3:32
Translators,
I wanted to take a moment as we're winding down from the fundraiser, and th=
ank you for your incredible work.
There's no question that without you, the fundraiser would not be anywhere =
near as successful. =A0More than 50% of our=0A donations come from outside =
the US now, which begins to highlight the incredible value that you provide=
to the projects.
On behalf of the staff at the Foundation, the fundraising team, and the com=
munity, please accept my thanks for the hard work that you do.
pb
PS - I'd be very interested in your thoughts on how we can make this proces=
s better next year. =A0Will you please write me privately (philippe at wikimed=
ia.org) to share your thoughts?
=0A
_______________________
Philippe Beaudette
Head of Reader Relations
Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
pbeaudette at wikimedia.org
Imagine a world in which every human=A0being can freely share=A0in=A0the su=
m of all knowledge. =A0Help us make it=A0a reality!
http://donate.wikimedia.org=0A=0A=0A
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
_______________________________________________
Translators-l mailing list
Translators-l at lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A
--0-1262006765-1296081946=:72470
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0" ><tr><td valign=3D"=
top" style=3D"font: inherit;"><br><blockquote style=3D"border-left: 2px sol=
id rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><br><div id=3D"y=
iv812512026"><table border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0"><tbody=
><tr><td style=3D"font: inherit;" valign=3D"top">=0A=0A<p class=3D"yiv81251=
2026MsoNormal">Dear Philippe,<br></p><p class=3D"yiv812512026MsoNormal"><br=
></p><p class=3D"yiv812512026MsoNormal">From my point of view the translati=
on of the fundraiser 2010=0Awas a very frustrating and disappointing experi=
ence. Despite my best efforts we=0Adid not receive a completely translated =
central banner=0Ain Welsh and clicking on the central banner=0Anever took u=
s to the Welsh language version of the donation landing page, at=0Aleast fo=
r the vast majority of cy users, those living in the UK.=0A<br>=0A<br>=0ATo=
describe in detail:<br>=0A<br>=0A<b>Translation links for translators</b><=
br>=0AThis year you decided not to include translation links from the centr=
al notice=0Ato meta because this was drawing people away from the donation =
link. I'm not=0Ataking issue with that decision. As you know the disadvanta=
ge of this is that=0Apotential translators do not know where to translate, =
which is potentially=0Aaggravating for those users (of which more below). O=
ne way of mitigating this=0Adifficulty would have been to post on the commu=
nity page an invitation and link=0Ato the translation tab of the Fundraiser=
2010 hub, specifically inviting users=0Ato translate, when the campaign we=
nt permanently live. Assuming that the=0Acentral banner will lack the trans=
lation links=0Anext year too I recommend you do this next year.<br>=0A<br>=
=0AThe link to the fundraiser translation which was included as a banner=0A=
on meta was very useful by the way - please can we have this next year too.=
<br>=0A<br>=0A<b>i-10n issues</b><br>=0AIt does not appear that i-10n issue=
s were considered during the preparation and=0Atesting of the fundraiser ei=
ther at Wikimedia Foundation or at any of the=0Achapters. Each chapter had =
its own landing pages with its own messages. No=0Amechanism was put in plac=
e to allow all language wikis within the geographical=0Aarea of the chapter=
to localise these chapter-specific messages. It was only=0Awhen this issue=
was raised by the wikis affected that this was addressed. Casey=0Abrown se=
t up some translated pages for individual combinations of=0Alanguage/chapte=
r, at their request. This was done on an ad hoc basis, it being=0Adown to e=
ach language wiki to understand the problem and request action. This=0Aissu=
e was discussed on the l-translators list but not all translators subscribe=
=0Ato the list (especially not those who are first-time translators at meta=
). I=0Arequested that somebody who knew the ins and outs of this issue writ=
e some=0Ageneral advice about this on meta itself. I was disappointed that =
my request=0Awas not answered. <br>=0A<br>=0AI recommend that when further =
action is needed by translators, to get their=0Atranslations applied, then =
notes about this should be posted where we are=0Alikely to see them - such =
as on the relevant translation pages at meta. <br>=0A<br>=0A<b>Image format=
</b><br>=0AAfter having translated various messages specific to Wikimedia U=
K=0Aand Casey Brown having published them it was still not possible to see =
them=0Abecause of a technical issue with the banner,=0Aapparently caused by=
its being done as an image on Wikimedia UK.=0AAs I understand it the image=
format performed better during the testing and so=0Awas chosen. No conside=
ration whatsoever had been given to the issue of=0Alocalisation of image fo=
rmats.<br>=0A<br>=0AUnfortunately it appears that there was only one person=
at WikiMedia UK=0Awho was in a position to create the correct banner=0Aima=
ges with 'Read Now' localised and linking to the localised WikiMedia UK=0Al=
anding pages. This one person was unfortunately too busy to do this as I=0A=
understand it. I had hoped that we would get this done by Christmas=0Abut i=
t never was done. I am quite disappointed that my last e-mail of concerning=
=0Athis has still not been answered, leaving me still in the dark to some=
=0Aextent. In any case he would have had to attend to each language=
=0Aindividually, meaning that only those languages requesting this would ha=
ve been=0Aable to be fixed.<br>=0A<br>=0APlease make sure that you use loca=
lisable formats in future.<br>=0A<br>=0A<b>Disregard of non-state language =
wikis</b><br>=0AI guess that the amount of money that you could raise from =
the wikis of=0Anon-state languages is usually small so from the point of vi=
ew of an efficient=0Afund-raiser all this is unimportant. But from my point=
of view fundraiser=0Acentral notices appearing wholly or partly in a langu=
age which is not the wiki=0Alanguage are counter-productive. Rather than en=
couraging users to donate they=0Adiscourage donation. You did not receive a=
donation from me this year, as I was=0Awaiting to be able to do this via t=
he central banner.=0A<br>=0A<br>=0AWorse than that however is that these ce=
ntral notices appearing in English or=0Astate languages are intrusive and a=
lienating, and in my opinion damage these=0Awikis. It creates a them and us=
mentality, reinforcing the view that the users=0Aof these wikis do not 'ow=
n' them. Usually central notices are translated=0Aquickly by me to avoid an=
y appearing in English. It was very frustrating to do=0Amany hours of work =
on the fundraiser, only for most of it not to appear via the=0Acentral bann=
er. The whole experience was=0Avery discouraging.<br>=0A<br>=0A<b sty=
le=3D"">Next year</b></p>=0A=0A<p class=3D"yiv812512026MsoNormal">I write a=
ll the above in the hope that next year's=0Afundraiser can be improved. I r=
ealise that all involved, volunteers and paid=0Astaff, are working under a =
lot of pressure and that there was no intention to=0Aaggravate the readers =
and translators of the smaller wikis. Some of the=0Asmaller wikis do =
not have enough manpower to translate all the stuff produced=0Aby WMF, eith=
er in a timely fashion, or at all. It was a shame that=0Atechnical is=
sues prevented the hard work of those of us who did translate=0Athe f=
undraiser from being put to use. Since I know that I was not the only=0Aper=
son who had difficulties this year I am copying this message to the=0Atrans=
lators-l list.<br>=0A<br>=0ARegards,<br>=0AEleri James (Lloffiwr), Wales</p=
>=0A=0A<br><br>--- On <b>Sat, 8/1/11, Philippe Beaudette <i><pbeaudette@=
wikimedia.org></i></b> wrote:<br><blockquote style=3D"border-left: 2px s=
olid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><br>From: Phil=
ippe Beaudette <pbeaudette at wikimedia.org><br>Subject: [Translators-l]=
Thank you<br>To: "Wikimedia Translators" <translators-l at lists.wikimedia=
.org>, "Translation committee and coordinators" <transcom at lists.wikim=
edia.org><br>Cc: "Sue Gardner" <sgardner at wikimedia.org>, "Zack Exl=
ey" <zexley at wikimedia.org>, "Megan Hernandez" <mhernandez at wikimedi=
a.org><br>Date: Saturday, 8 January, 2011, 3:32<br><br><div id=3D"yiv812=
512026yiv129304256">Translators,<div><br></div><div>I wanted to take a mome=
nt as we're winding down from the fundraiser, and thank you for your incred=
ible work.</div><div><br></div><div>There's no question that without you, t=
he fundraiser would not be anywhere near as successful. More than 50%=
of
our=0A donations come from outside the US now, which begins to highlight t=
he incredible value that you provide to the projects.</div><div><br></div><=
div>On behalf of the staff at the Foundation, the fundraising team, and the=
community, please accept my thanks for the hard work that you do.</div><di=
v><br></div><div>pb</div><div><br></div><div>PS - I'd be very interested in=
your thoughts on how we can make this process better next year. Will=
you please write me privately (<a rel=3D"nofollow">philippe at wikimedia.org<=
/a>) to share your thoughts?<br><div>=0A<span class=3D"yiv812512026yiv12930=
4256Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-=
weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; te=
xt-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-=
spacing: 0px; font-size: medium;"><span class=3D"yiv812512026yiv129304256Ap=
ple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); fo=
nt-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight=
: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-ind=
ent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacin=
g: 0px; font-size: medium;"><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word;"><br>_____=
__________________<br>Philippe Beaudette<br>Head of Reader Relations<br>Wik=
imedia Foundation, Inc.<br><br><a rel=3D"nofollow">pbeaudette at wikimedia.org=
</a><br><br><div><i>Imagine a world in which
every human being can freely share </i></div><div><i>in the=
sum of all knowledge. </i><i>Help us make it a reality!</i></di=
v><div><i><br>http://donate.wikimedia.org</i></div></div></span></span>=0A<=
/div>=0A=0A<br></div></div><br>-----Inline Attachment Follows-----<br><br><=
div class=3D"yiv812512026plainMail">_______________________________________=
________<br>Translators-l mailing list<br><a rel=3D"nofollow">Translators-l=
@lists.wikimedia.org</a><br><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"h=
ttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l">https://lists.wi=
kimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l</a><br></div></blockquote></td><=
/tr></tbody></table><br>=0A=0A=0A=0A </div></blockquote></td></tr></ta=
ble><br>=0A=0A=0A=0A
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