No subject
Fri Dec 10 13:58:20 UTC 2010
rustrating and disappointing experience. Despite my best efforts we=0Adid n=
ot receive a completely translated central banner=0Ain Welsh and clicking o=
n the central banner=0Anever took us to the Welsh language version of the d=
onation landing page, at=0Aleast for the vast majority of cy users, those l=
iving in the UK.=0A
=0A
=0ATo describe in detail:
=0A
=0ATranslation links for translators
=0AThis year you decided not to include translation links from the central =
notice=0Ato meta because this was drawing people away from the donation lin=
k. I'm not=0Ataking issue with that decision. As you know the disadvantage =
of this is that=0Apotential translators do not know where to translate, whi=
ch is potentially=0Aaggravating for those users (of which more below). One =
way of mitigating this=0Adifficulty would have been to post on the communit=
y page an invitation and link=0Ato the translation tab of the Fundraiser 20=
10 hub, specifically inviting users=0Ato translate, when the campaign went =
permanently live. Assuming that the=0Acentral banner will lack the translat=
ion links=0Anext year too I recommend you do this next year.
=0A
=0AThe link to the fundraiser translation which was included as a banner=0A=
on meta was very useful by the way - please can we have this next year too.
=0A
=0Ai-10n issues
=0AIt does not appear that i-10n issues were considered during the preparat=
ion and=0Atesting of the fundraiser either at Wikimedia Foundation or at an=
y of the=0Achapters. Each chapter had its own landing pages with its own me=
ssages. No=0Amechanism was put in place to allow all language wikis within =
the geographical=0Aarea of the chapter to localise these chapter-specific m=
essages. It was only=0Awhen this issue was raised by the wikis affected tha=
t this was addressed. Casey=0Abrown set up some translated pages for indivi=
dual combinations of=0Alanguage/chapter, at their request. This was done on=
an ad hoc basis, it being=0Adown to each language wiki to understand the p=
roblem and request action. This=0Aissue was discussed on the l-translators =
list but not all translators subscribe=0Ato the list (especially not those =
who are first-time translators at meta). I=0Arequested that somebody who kn=
ew the ins and outs of this issue write some=0Ageneral advice about this on=
meta itself. I was disappointed that my request=0Awas not answered.=20
=0A
=0AI recommend that when further action is needed by translators, to get th=
eir=0Atranslations applied, then notes about this should be posted where we=
are=0Alikely to see them - such as on the relevant translation pages at me=
ta.=20
=0A
=0AImage format
=0AAfter having translated various messages specific to Wikimedia UK=0Aand =
Casey Brown having published them it was still not possible to see them=0Ab=
ecause of a technical issue with the banner,=0Aapparently caused by its bei=
ng done as an image on Wikimedia UK.=0AAs I understand it the image format =
performed better during the testing and so=0Awas chosen. No consideration w=
hatsoever had been given to the issue of=0Alocalisation of image formats.
=0A
=0AUnfortunately it appears that there was only one person at WikiMedia UK=
=0Awho was in a position to create the correct banner=0Aimages with 'Read N=
ow' localised and linking to the localised WikiMedia UK=0Alanding pages. Th=
is one person was unfortunately too busy to do this as I=0Aunderstand it. I=
had hoped that we would get this done by Christmas=0Abut it never was done=
. I am quite disappointed that my last e-mail of concerning=0Athis has stil=
l not been answered, leaving me still in the dark to some=0Aextent.=A0 In a=
ny case he would have had to attend to each language=0Aindividually, meanin=
g that only those languages requesting this would have been=0Aable to be fi=
xed.
=0A
=0APlease make sure that you use localisable formats in future.
=0A
=0ADisregard of non-state language wikis
=0AI guess that the amount of money that you could raise from the wikis of=
=0Anon-state languages is usually small so from the point of view of an eff=
icient=0Afund-raiser all this is unimportant. But from my point of view fun=
draiser=0Acentral notices appearing wholly or partly in a language which is=
not the wiki=0Alanguage are counter-productive. Rather than encouraging us=
ers to donate they=0Adiscourage donation. You did not receive a donation fr=
om me this year, as I was=0Awaiting to be able to do this via the central b=
anner.=0A
=0A
=0AWorse than that however is that these central notices appearing in Engli=
sh or=0Astate languages are intrusive and alienating, and in my opinion dam=
age these=0Awikis. It creates a them and us mentality, reinforcing the view=
that the users=0Aof these wikis do not 'own' them. Usually central notices=
are translated=0Aquickly by me to avoid any appearing in English. It was v=
ery frustrating to do=0Amany hours of work on the fundraiser, only for most=
of it not to appear via the=0Acentral banner.=A0 The whole experience was=
=0Avery discouraging.
=0A
=0ANext year=0A=0AI write all the above in the hope that next year's=0Afund=
raiser can be improved. I realise that all involved, volunteers and paid=0A=
staff, are working under a lot of pressure and that there was no intention =
to=0Aaggravate the readers and translators of the smaller wikis.=A0 Some of=
the=0Asmaller wikis do not have enough manpower to translate all the stuff=
produced=0Aby WMF, either in a timely fashion, or at all.=A0 It was a sham=
e that=0Atechnical issues prevented the=A0 hard work of those of us who did=
translate=0Athe fundraiser from being put to use. Since I know that I was =
not the only=0Aperson who had difficulties this year I am copying this mess=
age to the=0Atranslators-l list.
=0A
=0ARegards,
=0AEleri James (Lloffiwr), Wales=0A=0A
--- On Sat, 8/1/11, Philippe Beaudette <pbeaudette at wikimedia.org> wrote:
From: Philippe Beaudette <pbeaudette at wikimedia.org>
Subject: [Translators-l] Thank you
To: "Wikimedia Translators" <translators-l at lists.wikimedia.org>, "Translati=
on committee and coordinators" <transcom at lists.wikimedia.org>
Cc: "Sue Gardner" <sgardner at wikimedia.org>, "Zack Exley" <zexley at wikimedia.=
org>, "Megan Hernandez" <mhernandez at wikimedia.org>
Date: Saturday, 8 January, 2011, 3:32
Translators,
I wanted to take a moment as we're winding down from the fundraiser, and th=
ank you for your incredible work.
There's no question that without you, the fundraiser would not be anywhere =
near as successful. =A0More than 50% of our donations come from outside the=
US now, which begins to highlight the incredible value that you provide to=
the projects.
On behalf of the staff at the Foundation, the fundraising team, and the com=
munity, please accept my thanks for the hard work that you do.
pb
PS - I'd be very interested in your thoughts on how we can make this proces=
s better next year. =A0Will you please write me privately (philippe at wikimed=
ia.org) to share your thoughts?
=0A
_______________________
Philippe Beaudette
Head of Reader Relations
Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
pbeaudette at wikimedia.org
Imagine a world in which every human=A0being can freely share=A0in=A0the su=
m of all knowledge. =A0Help us make it=A0a reality!
http://donate.wikimedia.org=0A=0A=0A
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
_______________________________________________
Translators-l mailing list
Translators-l at lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
=0A=0A=0A
--0-1812952427-1295695900=:13298
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tyle Definitions */=0A table.MsoNormalTable=0A=09{mso-style-name:"Table Nor=
mal";=0A=09mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0;=0A=09mso-tstyle-colband-size:0;=0A=09=
mso-style-noshow:yes;=0A=09mso-style-parent:"";=0A=09mso-padding-alt:0in 5.=
4pt 0in 5.4pt;=0A=09mso-para-margin:0in;=0A=09mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001p=
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y:"Times New Roman";}=0A</style>=0A<![endif]-->=0A=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
>Dear Philippe,<br></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
">From my point of view the translation of the fundraiser 2010=0Awas a very=
frustrating and disappointing experience. Despite my best efforts we=0Adid=
not receive a completely translated central banner=0Ain Welsh and clicking=
on the central banner=0Anever took us to the Welsh language version of the=
donation landing page, at=0Aleast for the vast majority of cy users, those=
living in the UK.=0A<br>=0A<br>=0ATo describe in detail:<br>=0A<br>=0A<b>T=
ranslation links for translators</b><br>=0AThis year you decided not to inc=
lude translation links from the central notice=0Ato meta because this was d=
rawing people away from the donation link. I'm not=0Ataking issue with that=
decision. As you know the disadvantage of this is that=0Apotential transla=
tors do not know where to translate, which is potentially=0Aaggravating for=
those users (of which more below). One way of mitigating this=0Adifficulty=
would have been to post on the community page an invitation and link=0Ato =
the translation tab of the Fundraiser 2010 hub, specifically inviting users=
=0Ato translate, when the campaign went permanently live. Assuming that the=
=0Acentral banner will lack the translation links=0Anext year too I recomme=
nd you do this next year.<br>=0A<br>=0AThe link to the fundraiser translati=
on which was included as a banner=0Aon meta was very useful by the way - pl=
ease can we have this next year too.<br>=0A<br>=0A<b>i-10n issues</b><br>=
=0AIt does not appear that i-10n issues were considered during the preparat=
ion and=0Atesting of the fundraiser either at Wikimedia Foundation or at an=
y of the=0Achapters. Each chapter had its own landing pages with its own me=
ssages. No=0Amechanism was put in place to allow all language wikis within =
the geographical=0Aarea of the chapter to localise these chapter-specific m=
essages. It was only=0Awhen this issue was raised by the wikis affected tha=
t this was addressed. Casey=0Abrown set up some translated pages for indivi=
dual combinations of=0Alanguage/chapter, at their request. This was done on=
an ad hoc basis, it being=0Adown to each language wiki to understand the p=
roblem and request action. This=0Aissue was discussed on the l-translators =
list but not all translators subscribe=0Ato the list (especially not those =
who are first-time translators at meta). I=0Arequested that somebody who kn=
ew the ins and outs of this issue write some=0Ageneral advice about this on=
meta itself. I was disappointed that my request=0Awas not answered. <br>=
=0A<br>=0AI recommend that when further action is needed by translators, to=
get their=0Atranslations applied, then notes about this should be posted w=
here we are=0Alikely to see them - such as on the relevant translation page=
s at meta. <br>=0A<br>=0A<b>Image format</b><br>=0AAfter having translated =
various messages specific to Wikimedia UK=0Aand Casey Brown having publishe=
d them it was still not possible to see them=0Abecause of a technical issue=
with the banner,=0Aapparently caused by its being done as an image on Wiki=
media UK.=0AAs I understand it the image format performed better during the=
testing and so=0Awas chosen. No consideration whatsoever had been given to=
the issue of=0Alocalisation of image formats.<br>=0A<br>=0AUnfortunately i=
t appears that there was only one person at WikiMedia UK=0Awho was in a pos=
ition to create the correct banner=0Aimages with 'Read Now' localised and l=
inking to the localised WikiMedia UK=0Alanding pages. This one person was u=
nfortunately too busy to do this as I=0Aunderstand it. I had hoped that we =
would get this done by Christmas=0Abut it never was done. I am quite disapp=
ointed that my last e-mail of concerning=0Athis has still not been answered=
, leaving me still in the dark to some=0Aextent. In any case he would=
have had to attend to each language=0Aindividually, meaning that only thos=
e languages requesting this would have been=0Aable to be fixed.<br>=0A<br>=
=0APlease make sure that you use localisable formats in future.<br>=0A<br>=
=0A<b>Disregard of non-state language wikis</b><br>=0AI guess that the amou=
nt of money that you could raise from the wikis of=0Anon-state languages is=
usually small so from the point of view of an efficient=0Afund-raiser all =
this is unimportant. But from my point of view fundraiser=0Acentral notices=
appearing wholly or partly in a language which is not the wiki=0Alanguage =
are counter-productive. Rather than encouraging users to donate they=0Adisc=
ourage donation. You did not receive a donation from me this year, as I was=
=0Awaiting to be able to do this via the central banner.=0A<br>=0A<br>=0AWo=
rse than that however is that these central notices appearing in English or=
=0Astate languages are intrusive and alienating, and in my opinion damage t=
hese=0Awikis. It creates a them and us mentality, reinforcing the view that=
the users=0Aof these wikis do not 'own' them. Usually central notices are =
translated=0Aquickly by me to avoid any appearing in English. It was very f=
rustrating to do=0Amany hours of work on the fundraiser, only for most of i=
t not to appear via the=0Acentral banner. The whole experience was=0A=
very discouraging.<br>=0A<br>=0A<b style=3D"">Next year</b></p>=0A=0A<p cla=
ss=3D"MsoNormal">I write all the above in the hope that next year's=0Afundr=
aiser can be improved. I realise that all involved, volunteers and paid=0As=
taff, are working under a lot of pressure and that there was no intention t=
o=0Aaggravate the readers and translators of the smaller wikis. Some =
of the=0Asmaller wikis do not have enough manpower to translate all the stu=
ff produced=0Aby WMF, either in a timely fashion, or at all. It was a=
shame that=0Atechnical issues prevented the hard work of those of us=
who did translate=0Athe fundraiser from being put to use. Since I know tha=
t I was not the only=0Aperson who had difficulties this year I am copying t=
his message to the=0Atranslators-l list.<br>=0A<br>=0ARegards,<br>=0AEleri =
James (Lloffiwr), Wales</p>=0A=0A<br><br>--- On <b>Sat, 8/1/11, Philippe Be=
audette <i><pbeaudette at wikimedia.org></i></b> wrote:<br><blockquote s=
tyle=3D"border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-=
left: 5px;"><br>From: Philippe Beaudette <pbeaudette at wikimedia.org><b=
r>Subject: [Translators-l] Thank you<br>To: "Wikimedia Translators" <tra=
nslators-l at lists.wikimedia.org>, "Translation committee and coordinators=
" <transcom at lists.wikimedia.org><br>Cc: "Sue Gardner" <sgardner at wi=
kimedia.org>, "Zack Exley" <zexley at wikimedia.org>, "Megan Hernande=
z" <mhernandez at wikimedia.org><br>Date: Saturday, 8 January, 2011, 3:3=
2<br><br><div id=3D"yiv129304256">Translators,<div><br></div><div>I wanted =
to take a moment as we're winding down from the fundraiser, and thank you f=
or your incredible work.</div><div><br></div><div>There's no question that =
without you, the fundraiser would not be anywhere near as successful.  =
;More than 50% of our
donations come from outside the US now, which begins to highlight the incr=
edible value that you provide to the projects.</div><div><br></div><div>On =
behalf of the staff at the Foundation, the fundraising team, and the commun=
ity, please accept my thanks for the hard work that you do.</div><div><br><=
/div><div>pb</div><div><br></div><div>PS - I'd be very interested in your t=
houghts on how we can make this process better next year. Will you pl=
ease write me privately (<a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:philippe at wik=
imedia.org" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"/mc/compose?to=3Dphilippe at wikimedia.o=
rg">philippe at wikimedia.org</a>) to share your thoughts?<br><div>=0A<span cl=
ass=3D"yiv129304256Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; co=
lor: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant=
: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal;=
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; w=
idows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; font-size: medium;"><span class=3D"yiv12930425=
6Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);=
font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-wei=
ght: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-=
indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spa=
cing: 0px; font-size: medium;"><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word;"><br>__=
_____________________<br>Philippe Beaudette<br>Head of Reader Relations<br>=
Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.<br><br><a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:pbe=
audette at wikimedia.org" target=3D"_blank"
href=3D"/mc/compose?to=3Dpbeaudette at wikimedia.org">pbeaudette at wikimedia.or=
g</a><br><br><div><i>Imagine a world in which every human being can fr=
eely share </i></div><div><i>in the sum of all knowledge. <=
/i><i>Help us make it a reality!</i></div><div><i><br>http://donate.wi=
kimedia.org</i></div></div></span></span>=0A</div>=0A=0A<br></div></div><br=
>-----Inline Attachment Follows-----<br><br><div class=3D"plainMail">______=
_________________________________________<br>Translators-l mailing list<br>=
<a ymailto=3D"mailto:Translators-l at lists.wikimedia.org" href=3D"/mc/compose=
?to=3DTranslators-l at lists.wikimedia.org">Translators-l at lists.wikimedia.org<=
/a><br><a href=3D"https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-=
l" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translato=
rs-l</a><br></div></blockquote></td></tr></table><br>=0A=0A=0A=0A
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