[Wiki Loves Monuments] 'evaluation'

Romaine Wiki romaine.wiki at gmail.com
Wed May 6 16:20:30 UTC 2015


Hi all,

In the online meeting it was said that we should at our comments to the
talk page:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:Evaluation/Evaluation_reports/2015/Wiki_Loves_Monuments

Romaine

2015-05-06 18:17 GMT+02:00 Edward Galvez <egalvez at wikimedia.org>:

> Hi Roel,
>
> See my response:
>
> On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 5:12 AM, Roel Balingit <
> roel.balingit at wikimedia.org.ph> wrote:
>
>> I believe that calculation is unfair because it prejudices communities
>> where free knowledge isn't widely accepted as well as countries which have
>> limited Internet penetration. Just a general statement.
>>
>
> This is really great to hear from your perspective. We totally acknowledge
> that there are differences! The report is a first step to learning about
> the programs looking at some metrics globally. The next step is to do
> interviewers with people from all over to learn the best practices in
> different contexts, and share them in the form of a toolkit.
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *ROEL BALINGIT*
>> *Treasurer*
>> *______________________________________________________________*
>> *WIKIMEDIA PHILIPPINES*
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>> City*
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>> | M: +63-917-8807635 <%2B63-917-8807635> *
>> *W: **www.wikimedia.org.ph <http://www.wikimedia.org.ph/> |
>> E: roel.balingit at wikimedia.org.ph <roel.balingit at wikimedia.org.ph>*
>>
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>>
>> On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 8:08 PM, Ilario Valdelli <valdelli at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> To be clear. Here the benefits are not calculated because we consider
>>> that a single upload is a benefit.
>>>
>>> What is missed is the time of the volunteers.
>>>
>>> If we calculate the overload of the community to check photos or to look
>>> for copyviol,  this relation changes.
>>>
>>> It an important parameter because a volunteer to filter a huge amount of
>>> poor photos or of copyviol has a negative impact in other activities.
>>>
>>> Basically these parameters are not realistic.
>>> Il 05/Mag/2015 13:59, "Ilario Valdelli" <valdelli at gmail.com> ha scritto:
>>>
>>>> It's un unclear.
>>>>
>>>> A god shot on the market costs more than 50 dollars.
>>>>
>>>> Everything in high quality is a benefit.
>>>>
>>>> So the aim is not to calculate a cost per shot but the relation costs
>>>> benefits.
>>>>
>>>> Basically the delta.
>>>>
>>>> If there is the need to evaluate the success considering the poor
>>>> relation costs per upload, there is no sense to have a photo contest. An
>>>> editathon will produce more results.
>>>>  Il 05/Mag/2015 12:21, "Ivo Kruusamägi" <ivo.kruusamagi at gmail.com> ha
>>>> scritto:
>>>>
>>>>> I've collected photos for Commons with cost lower than 0.01 $ per
>>>>> image, so I don't like claims, that "A god shot of a professional
>>>>> artist doesn't cost 0.90 dollars". Considering the fact, that average
>>>>> upload in WLM is usually out of rather poor quality and will not find
>>>>> itself a place in an article, then thous things aren't that easily
>>>>> comparable.
>>>>>
>>>>> I specially like the comment about Romaine, and I have taken somewhat
>>>>> similar approach. Only if I'm able to provide constant work for the
>>>>> newcomers there is some chance of keeping them with the program. Getting
>>>>> images vs getting users are two rather different aims. I have also set
>>>>> interest towards getting quality images as we have so many contributors per
>>>>> capita in Estonia, that it isn't very likely to get an increase there
>>>>> without some rather desperate means. But just focusing on images could help
>>>>> to get significantly better quality contributions.
>>>>>
>>>>> As of this evaluation I'd actually like to get some selected examples,
>>>>> that would explain somewhat on what others have done and what kind of
>>>>> differences there are. For instance, if someone spends thousands of dollars
>>>>> for this campaign, then I'd like to know where the money went, as I can't
>>>>> personally think of any places on where to spend that much. Or what kind of
>>>>> outreach approach was taken to achieve the x goals etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>> Ivo Kruusamägi
>>>>>
>>>>> 2015-05-05 11:06 GMT+03:00 Ilario Valdelli <valdelli at gmail.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> To specify what I am saying:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Evaluation/Evaluation_reports/2015/Wiki_Loves_Monuments/Outputs
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the paragraph "Content Production and Quality Improvement" it's
>>>>>> not mentioned any paragraph about the quality of the photos.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's a photo contest and the photo contest gives a prize to the best
>>>>>> photos not to the biggest uploaders.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is an example of divergence between the real aim of the projects
>>>>>> and the measures of the evaluation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Probably there is a misunderstanding in same place.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A god shot of a professional artist doesn't cost 0.90 dollars.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To measure the success the best approach is to consider that a god
>>>>>> shot can costs around 50-100 dollars.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Replying to people that agree that the measure is to cover articles,
>>>>>> I agree with them but I also agree that there is no sense to have bad
>>>>>> photos even if these photos are not "descriptive".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 9:46 AM, Ilario Valdelli <valdelli at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Lodewijk,
>>>>>>> it's not the fisrt time that I am saying that the measures of the
>>>>>>> evaluation are able to measure quantities and not qualities.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If the aim of Wikimedia is to improve also the qualities, it's clear
>>>>>>> the direction that the movement is taking.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I know that measuring quantities is easier, but it's not an
>>>>>>> evaluation, are simple numbers without a clear "strategy".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> regards
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, May 2, 2015 at 1:26 PM, Lodewijk <
>>>>>>> lodewijk at effeietsanders.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> it seems that the WMF evaluation department has once again put
>>>>>>>> together an evaluation of Wiki Loves Monuments. Out of curiosity, were any
>>>>>>>> of the organizers involved in this? A quick glance suggests some factual
>>>>>>>> errors, and again a big focus on assuming WLM is a consistent project, that
>>>>>>>> is similar in each country (while in reality it is a diverse collection of
>>>>>>>> projects, tailored to the needs of each country, by its community) and with
>>>>>>>> a focus towards number crunching.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Statements that begin with 'the average Wiki Loves Monuments
>>>>>>>> implementation/contest' make my eyes bleed... Did anyone make a more
>>>>>>>> thorough analysis of the report?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>> Lodewijk
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list
>>>>>>>> WikiLovesMonuments at lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments
>>>>>>>> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Ilario Valdelli
>>>>>>> Wikimedia CH
>>>>>>> Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
>>>>>>> Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
>>>>>>> Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
>>>>>>> Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
>>>>>>> Wikipedia: Ilario <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Ilario>
>>>>>>> Skype: valdelli
>>>>>>> Facebook: Ilario Valdelli <https://www.facebook.com/ivaldelli>
>>>>>>> Twitter: Ilario Valdelli <https://twitter.com/ilariovaldelli>
>>>>>>> Linkedin: Ilario Valdelli
>>>>>>> <http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=6724469>
>>>>>>> Tel: +41764821371
>>>>>>> http://www.wikimedia.ch
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Ilario Valdelli
>>>>>> Wikimedia CH
>>>>>> Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
>>>>>> Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
>>>>>> Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
>>>>>> Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
>>>>>> Wikipedia: Ilario <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Ilario>
>>>>>> Skype: valdelli
>>>>>> Facebook: Ilario Valdelli <https://www.facebook.com/ivaldelli>
>>>>>> Twitter: Ilario Valdelli <https://twitter.com/ilariovaldelli>
>>>>>> Linkedin: Ilario Valdelli
>>>>>> <http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=6724469>
>>>>>> Tel: +41764821371
>>>>>> http://www.wikimedia.ch
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list
>>>>>> WikiLovesMonuments at lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments
>>>>>> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list
>>>>> WikiLovesMonuments at lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments
>>>>> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list
>>> WikiLovesMonuments at lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments
>>> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list
>> WikiLovesMonuments at lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments
>> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Edward Galvez
> Program Evaluation Associate
> Wikimedia Foundation
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list
> WikiLovesMonuments at lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments
> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
>
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