[Wiki Loves Monuments] [Wikimedia-l] Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising

Mon Aug 31 12:19:23 UTC 2015

Hello Megan & Andrea,

Thank you for the message and the hard work done!

Greetings,
Romaine

----
international organiser of Wiki Loves Monuments

2015-08-31 13:02 GMT+02:00 Megan Hernandez <mhernandez at wikimedia.org>:

> Below is a message that Andrea Zanni, President of Wikimedia Italia, and I
> have written together.
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> Thank you for sharing your thoughts and feedback. We would like to fill you
> in on the background work and conversations between Wikimedia Italia and
> WMF.
>
> There was a scheduling problem to solve between two very important
> campaigns for the movement. Wiki Loves Monuments is a major contribution
> campaign and annual effort.  Fundraising campaigns fund the movement and
> the team has a difficult goal this year with quarterly targets to meet.
> Direct communication was needed to work through the issue.
>
> WMIT and WMF have been talking through the situation and many possible
> solutions over the past few weeks. Through very honest and respectful phone
> and email conversations, we were able to reach a mutual understanding of
> the issue and decided to move the fundraising campaign after Wiki Loves
> Monuments. We reached this agreement over the weekend (actually several
> hours before the RfC was posted online), but an immediate reply was not
> sent because we wanted to coordinate an update to the list. Weekend
> coordination is tricky, which is why this email is being sent on Monday.
>
> Postponing the Italian fundraising campaign means for the first time in at
> least 4 years, the fundraising team will not be meeting a target. The team
> will pick up extra work in October to make up for work missed in September.
> It's not possible to do two months of work in one month, so there will need
> to be adjustments later throughout the year to make up for missing the
> September target.
>
> Wikimedia Italia and the WMF fundraising team have collaborated in the past
> on several projects (chapter banner and email campaigns as well as
> fundraising campaigns). We are currently working together on ways to get
> more contributors to WLM in Italy this year and on the upcoming fundraiser.
> We’ll work on communication and will share mutual expertise. We look
> forward to continuing to grow the relationship and working more closely
> going forward.
>
> It’s clear we need a better process to coordinate campaigns. We are a vast
> and complex movement, so communication is key. Together with the Community
> Engagement team, we are thinking of ways to improve and we appreciate your
> effort toward this improvement. Reasonable and respectful communication is
> how we were able to reach a solution, we need to build from this going
> forward.
>
> Thank you to everyone who provided constructive ideas to help solve the
> problem. Best of luck to all the WLM campaigns that launch tomorrow! Thank
> you for all your work on WLM, we’re all looking forward to seeing the new
> contributions this year.
>
>
> Megan Hernandez and Andrea Zanni
>
> On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 12:47 PM, Peter Southwood <
> peter.southwood at telkomsa.net> wrote:
>
> > Interesting that this happens just after the RFC is started. Maybe no
> > relevance...
> > Cheers,
> > P
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: wikimedia-l-bounces at lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:
> > wikimedia-l-bounces at lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Andrea Zanni
> > Sent: Sunday, 30 August 2015 10:21 PM
> > To: Wikimedia Mailing List; Wiki Loves Monuments Photograph Competition
> > Cc: Wikimedia Chapters general discussions
> > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki Loves Monuments] Wiki Loves Monuments in
> > Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising
> >
> > Hello everybody.
> > I'm happy to announce that the Wikimedia Foundation has decided not to
> run
> > the Fundraising banner in Italy during September.
> >
> > In the last week, the Fundraising Team and Wikimedia Italia's board
> worked
> > hard together to find a common solution. In these very last days, we
> > continued a very honest and direct conversation.
> > I just received the news, and I'm glad to share it with you all.
> >
> > I personally think that the Fundraising Team made a brave move (as they
> > will not likely meet the fundraising goals), and would love to see it
> > welcomed with the respect it deserves.
> >
> > Best regards
> >
> > Andrea
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 8:33 PM, Steinsplitter Wiki <
> > steinsplitter-wiki at live.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Thank you Romaine for setting up the RFC on meta [1]!
> > >
> > > So we can see what the community thinks about this.
> > >
> > > [1]
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Fundraising_banne
> > > r_or_Wiki_Loves_Monuments_banner
> > >
> > > > Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2015 19:04:41 +0200
> > > > From: romaine.wiki at gmail.com
> > > > To: wikimedia-l at lists.wikimedia.org;
> > > wikilovesmonuments at lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki Loves Monuments] Wiki Loves
> > > > Monuments
> > > in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising
> > > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > Having spoken with some people, I have come to the conclusion that
> > > > it is time to ask the Wikimedia community what they think about this
> > > situation. I
> > > > have especially seen both parties, the Wiki Loves Monuments
> > > > organising teams who like to have a banner for Wiki Loves Monuments
> > > > in September,
> > > and
> > > > the WMF Fundraising team who likes to have a fundraising banner in
> > > > September. Then the question remains: what has more value for the
> > > Wikimedia
> > > > movement?
> > > >
> > > > To find out what the Wikimedia community thinks about this
> > > > situation, I have set up this Request for Comment:
> > > >
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Fundraising_banne
> > > r_or_Wiki_Loves_Monuments_banner
> > > >
> > > > Romaine
> > > >
> > > > 2015-08-30 15:35 GMT+02:00 Romaine Wiki <romaine.wiki at gmail.com>:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi all,
> > > > >
> > > > > New update:
> > > > >
> > > > > The Italian team had some calls with the fundraising team and it
> > > resulted
> > > > > in:
> > > > > * Wiki Loves Monuments gets the whole 4th week of September. So we
> > > > > will have the WLM banner alone the first and the last week.
> > > > > * WLM IT is discussing with the community a message in the Main
> > > > > Page of Wikipedia
> > > > > * WMF will try to put a link to WLM in the banner
> > > > > * WMF will put a link to WLM in the Thank You letter for donors.
> > > > > * WMF is helping WLM Italy with a blogpost in the blog, and social
> > > media
> > > > > fire
> > > > >
> > > > > They made clear this won't happen again.
> > > > >
> > > > > To me, the only improvements is their promise it won't happen
> > > > > again,
> > > what
> > > > > we certainly keep them having their promise in future, and that
> > > > > the
> > > amount
> > > > > of time the Wiki Loves Monuments banner is shown will be 50% of
> > > > > the
> > > time.
> > > > >
> > > > > The rest of the outcomes is lousy and they sold us empty boxes.
> > > > > Wiki
> > > Loves
> > > > > Monuments depends for about 99% on a CentralNotice banner. Most
> > > visitors to
> > > > > Wikipedia do not visit the main page of a wiki. I do not believe a
> > > small
> > > > > link to WLM in a large fundraising banner would help or is seen. I
> > > > > do
> > > not
> > > > > believe that a link in the Thank You letter for donors would work.
> > > > > A blogpost will be written anyway, as Wiki Loves Monuments is the
> > > > > largest project of the Wikimedia movement, but still it would not
> > > > > reach to the
> > > core
> > > > > people Wiki Loves Monuments is aiming at. And a social media fire,
> > > > > I
> > > have
> > > > > no believe in it that WMF would have any control in such and the
> > > > > core infrastructure is not under control by WMF.
> > > > >
> > > > > And still no explanation why it is not possible to move the
> > > > > fundraising banner to a month later...
> > > > >
> > > > > I can only conclude that we have been put off, in Dutch:
> > > > > afgescheept worden (literally: being shipped of).
> > > > >
> > > > > At such having a blocking banner is sad news. A competition is
> > > > > large ruined by it.
> > > > >
> > > > > What I consider the most demotivating is the play the fundraising
> > > > > team
> > > of
> > > > > WMF has played. I certainly do not consider it fair play. Too many
> > > empty
> > > > > promises, dividing the community to get less resistance, no fair
> > > > > negotiations, usage of the inexperience of volunteers, and more.
> > > > >
> > > > > And even after explaining the community perspective many times by
> > > multiple
> > > > > people, I still have the impression some people in WMF still do
> > > > > not
> > > really
> > > > > get it.
> > > > >
> > > > > I had the occasion in the past weeks that I spoke with people from
> > > > > WMF
> > > who
> > > > > are working for the foundation for some years, and I had to
> > > > > explain
> > > what
> > > > > Wiki Loves Monuments is. (And that was not the first time.) It is
> > > > > the largest project of the movement, recognised as largest photo
> > > > > contest
> > > in the
> > > > > world, and some WMF people do not know or understand. I was so
> > > friendly to
> > > > > explain it of course, but it gave mixed feelings.
> > > > >
> > > > > And even after explaining the community perspective many times by
> > > multiple
> > > > > people, they do not really get it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Lessons to be learned:
> > > > > * Do not assume that the fundraising team takes the best position
> > > > > for
> > > the
> > > > > movement, they have a target to make.
> > > > > * Do not assume the fundraising team plays a fair play. They have
> > > > > a
> > > lot of
> > > > > weight and use it.
> > > > > * Do not assume that their first offer (in case of a blocking
> > > > > banner)
> > > is a
> > > > > balanced, reasonable and well thought one.
> > > > > * Do not expect them to know how much the impact is of something.
> > > > > * Do expect them to offer empty shells/boxes/etc and are not
> > > > > impressed
> > > by
> > > > > those.
> > > > > * Say always no if they ask if a blocking banner or two banners at
> > > > > the same time is okay. It has a devastating effect on your
> > > > > results. Yes you can, some chapters did and that was taken into
> > account seriously.
> > > > > * Always have the complete team involved in the communication, and
> > > > > even think of asking advisers (from outside WMF) for support and
> > > > > feedback
> > > on the
> > > > > proposals. Always have someone involved who has years of
> > > > > experience in
> > > this
> > > > > matter, otherwise you loose and the whole community looses.
> > > > >
> > > > > But I think the best lesson learned is: with every blocking
> > > > > banner, let the community publicly decide what should be chosen.
> > > > >
> > > > > Romaine
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 2015-08-30 14:00 GMT+02:00 Steinsplitter Wiki <
> > > steinsplitter-wiki at live.com
> > > > > >:
> > > > >
> > > > >> I 100% agree with rupert's thoughts.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Wiki(p|m)edia was and is mad be volunteers, therefore volunteer
> > > > >> first should apply. Volunteers are contributing the content for
> > > > >> exactly zero dollars per hour. It is all because of free
> > > > >> knowledge and other
> > > stuff, but
> > > > >> not about money. It looks like money is fore some people moor
> > > important
> > > > >> than free knowledge. It is frustrating...
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Regards,
> > > > >> Steinsplitter
> > > > >>
> > > > >> > From: rupert.thurner at gmail.com
> > > > >> > Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2015 21:35:46 +0200
> > > > >> > To: janbart at wikimedia.org; patricio.lorente at gmail.com;
> > > > >> me.lyzzy at gmail.com; ubifrieda at gmail.com; jmh649 at gmail.com;
> > > > >> darekj at alk.edu.pl; denny.vrandecic at kit.edu; jwales at wikia.com;
> > > > >> stu at wikimedia.org
> > > > >> > CC: wikilovesmonuments at lists.wikimedia.org;
> > > > >> wikimedia-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > >> > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki Loves Monuments] Wiki Loves
> > > Monuments
> > > > >> in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > dear board,
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > allow me to directly ask you to stop these fundraising persons
> > > > >> > to
> > > spoil
> > > > >> > wiki loves monuments because of less than intelligent KPIs. WMF
> > > cannot
> > > > >> and
> > > > >> > should not behave like an elephant in the porcelain shop. there
> > > > >> > is a
> > > > >> simple
> > > > >> > technical solution to the problem below, to have a combined
> > > > >> > banner
> > > for
> > > > >> WLM
> > > > >> > and donation. it is impossible that more money at stake as is
> > > covered by
> > > > >> > the reserves, isn't it? i am really lacking words here ... the
> > > > >> > only
> > > > >> ones i
> > > > >> > could find would not be compliant with the friendly space
> policy.
> > > if we
> > > > >> as
> > > > >> > movement do not follow through the "volunteer first" rule than
> > > > >> > it is
> > > > >> better
> > > > >> > to dissolve WMF, or split it in two parts, one holding the
> > > > >> > rights
> > > to the
> > > > >> > web URLs, i.e. right to banner, the other one employing all the
> > > people
> > > > >> > doing some work.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > best,
> > > > >> > rupert
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 3:49 PM, Andrea Zanni <
> > > zanni.andrea84 at gmail.com
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > wrote:
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > > Hello everyone.
> > > > >> > > Sorry for the long mail but we wanted to explain the
> > > > >> > > situation for Wikimedia Italia.
> > > > >> > > The conversation is going on and it's better to clear some
> > > important
> > > > >> > > points.
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > In the second week of August Wikimedia Italia has been
> > > > >> > > contacted
> > > by
> > > > >> > > Kalliope Tsouroupidou and later by Jessica Robell, who
> > > > >> > > explained
> > > that
> > > > >> the
> > > > >> > > Wikimedia Foundation was planning to have a fundraising
> > > > >> > > campaign
> > > in
> > > > >> Italy
> > > > >> > > in September.
> > > > >> > > We have been surprised by that, since Wiki Loves Monuments is
> > > > >> well-known to
> > > > >> > > run in September, and it has been like that for years.
> > > > >> > > Moreover, there has been a similar clash in 2014:  we
> > > > >> > > discussed
> > > for
> > > > >> several
> > > > >> > > days, and in the end we reached a compromise, and the FR
> > > > >> > > banners
> > > went
> > > > >> live
> > > > >> > > just for the last days.
> > > > >> > > It was not perfect, but we had WLM banners for almost all
> > > September.
> > > > >> > > This year the clash is on the whole month of September. Given
> > > > >> > > the
> > > > >> history,
> > > > >> > > and the very fact that Wikimedia Italia has planned WLM and
> > > written
> > > > >> so in
> > > > >> > > the FDC application, we feel that WMIT has not been
> > > > >> > > negligible in
> > > > >> matters
> > > > >> > > of
> > > > >> > > communication.
> > > > >> > > We are not *happy* with the situation, the very existence of
> > > > >> > > the clash, the fact that all this appeared
> > > in
> > > > >> the
> > > > >> > > middle of August, while we were all on holiday and just few
> > > > >> > > weeks
> > > > >> before
> > > > >> > > the beginning of WLM.
> > > > >> > > We just decided not to pick up a fight, as we believe in
> > > constructive
> > > > >> > > conversation and negotiation.
> > > > >> > > The agreement we reached is very painful for WMIT and WLM:
> > > > >> > > it's
> > > just
> > > > >> better
> > > > >> > > than not having the banners at all, or to have them for just
> > > > >> > > a few
> > > > >> days in
> > > > >> > > the middle of September.
> > > > >> > > Conversations with the FR team has been firm, but polite:
> > > > >> > > this
> > > does
> > > > >> not
> > > > >> > > mean that we are happy about what is happening.
> > > > >> > > Moreover, we will have to discuss with FDC to renegotiate
> > > > >> > > expected
> > > > >> results
> > > > >> > > for WLM in 2015.
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > Having the fundraising campaign in September in Italy has a
> > > > >> > > clear
> > > > >> negative
> > > > >> > > impact on Wiki Loves Monuments, the largest project of
> > > > >> > > Wikimedia
> > > > >> Italia.
> > > > >> > > This will not only likely reduce the number of participants
> > > > >> > > and
> > > > >> uploaded
> > > > >> > > pictures, but will also put us in a difficult position in
> > > > >> > > front
> > > of our
> > > > >> > > sponsors and partners, including 200+ municipalities, 100+
> > > cultural
> > > > >> > > institutions, and some major partners, like FIAF (the
> > > > >> > > Federation
> > > of
> > > > >> Italian
> > > > >> > > photographers' associations), ICOM (the International Council
> > > > >> > > of
> > > > >> Museums),
> > > > >> > > the Toscana Foto Festival (a major photo festival), Touring
> > > > >> > > Club
> > > > >> Italiano
> > > > >> > > (the largest Italian touristic association), and others. WMIT
> > > spends
> > > > >> > > thousands of euros in WLM each year - not because we waste
> > > > >> > > money,
> > > but
> > > > >> > > because we have higher stakes.
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > This year, we will have in the Italian Jury international
> > > > >> > > renowned photographers like (prabably: yet to be confirmed)
> > > > >> > > Steve McCurry (
> > > > >> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_McCurry) and Franco
> > > > >> > > Fontana ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco_Fontana).
> > > > >> > > This year, in June, we were received by several politicians
> > > > >> > > from
> > > the
> > > > >> > > Italian Parliament for an official meeting regarding the law
> > > > >> > > we
> > > are
> > > > >> > > fighting
> > > > >> > > as WMIT.
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > Because of the specific challenges we face, WLM in Italy goes
> > > beyond
> > > > >> being
> > > > >> > > a photographic competition and is also an opportunity to
> > > > >> > > create relationships and advocate for the freedom of taking
> > > > >> > > pictures of
> > > > >> monuments.
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > Italy does not have "freedom of panorama".
> > > > >> > > Worst, Italy does not have freedom of panorama for any kind
> > > > >> > > of
> > > > >> monuments,
> > > > >> > > even if copyright has expired.
> > > > >> > > We need to ask for permission to make pictures of monuments.
> > For.
> > > > >> Every.
> > > > >> > > Monument.
> > > > >> > > We have to create lists of monuments to be photographed.
> > > > >> > > There is
> > > no
> > > > >> > > official list of monuments in Italy.
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > There is *extensive* documentation here:
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >>
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Italian_cultural_heritage_on_the_Wikim
> > > edia_projects
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > This is very important to know to put in perspective WLM
> > > > >> > > Italy
> > > stats:
> > > > >> > > http://stats.wikilovesmonuments.cl/italy. As an example, it
> > > > >> > > is
> > > the
> > > > >> reason
> > > > >> > > why we have so many participants who contribute for few pics
> > > each. In
> > > > >> 2014
> > > > >> > > alone, we had 1038 uploaders, but we were only 6th in terms
> > > > >> > > of
> > > number
> > > > >> of
> > > > >> > > photos.
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > The global fundraising is essential to our movement.
> > > > >> > > It funds Wikipedia operations, software development, the
> > > > >> > > Wikimedia Foundation, many chapters and affiliates, and, of
> > > > >> > > course, also
> > > Wiki
> > > > >> Loves
> > > > >> > > Monuments (even tough in Italy it is primarily funded from
> > > > >> > > other
> > > > >> sources).
> > > > >> > > The global fundraising is meant to support the Wikimedia
> > movement:
> > > > >> but, for
> > > > >> > > this very reason, it is a pity to have it clashing to one of
> > > > >> > > the
> > > very
> > > > >> > > activities it is meant to support.
> > > > >> > > Especially since we are not talking about a 2 hours editathon
> > > > >> > > in a
> > > > >> small
> > > > >> > > library in the middle of nowhere, but about an international
> > > > >> competition
> > > > >> > > who ended up in the Guinnes World Records, bringing thousands
> > > > >> > > of
> > > > >> pictures
> > > > >> > > to the Wikimedia projects.
> > > > >> > > We understand that fundraising is not an easy job, especially
> > > when it
> > > > >> is
> > > > >> > > done on a global level. Yet we feel obliged to use donors
> > > > >> > > money to
> > > > >> build
> > > > >> > > and deliver the best projects we can: firstly out of respect
> > > > >> > > for
> > > all
> > > > >> the
> > > > >> > > people who decided to donate their time, their money or their
> > > career
> > > > >> to the
> > > > >> > > movement; secondly because a badly executed projects could
> > > > >> > > also
> > > have a
> > > > >> > > negative impact on the next fundraising campaigns.
> > > > >> > > We are all part of the same movement: the work of the WMF
> > > fundraising
> > > > >> team
> > > > >> > > is strictly linked to that of the community. We would like to
> > > > >> > > be
> > > > >> confident
> > > > >> > > that what is happening now won't happen for a third time, and
> > > that in
> > > > >> the
> > > > >> > > future we will be able to communicate more effectively and
> > > > >> > > work
> > > more
> > > > >> > > collaboratively.
> > > > >> > > We really are looking forward a more effective cooperation
> > > > >> > > with
> > > WMF
> > > > >> and all
> > > > >> > > other Wikimedia Affiliates: collaboration is the very pillar
> > > > >> > > of
> > > all
> > > > >> the
> > > > >> > > Wikimedia movement.
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > We would like to thank all the people who supported us and
> > > > >> > > gave us
> > > > >> opinions
> > > > >> > > and advices on this mailing list and elsewhere.
> > > > >> > > We are very proud to be part of such a great community, and
> > > > >> > > we
> > > would
> > > > >> like
> > > > >> > > to see it become wider and bigger.
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > Andrea Zanni
> > > > >> > > for the board of Wikimedia Italia
> > > > >> > > _______________________________________________
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