[Wiki Loves Monuments] [Wikimedia-l] Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising

Richard Symonds richard.symonds at wikimedia.org.uk
Mon Aug 24 11:11:18 UTC 2015


I am not sure how the Italian WLM works, but I believe they do still
attract newbies to the competition. I am not sure about their proportion of
"casual
uploaders/experienced uploaders" but we haven't seen figures either way
there.

Richard Symonds
Wikimedia UK
0207 065 0992

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On 24 August 2015 at 12:08, Jane Darnell <jane023 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I think you misunderstand me. What I meant to say is that though the impact
> of no banner might be great, it is not so great as it would be for those
> countries who can attract newbies to the competition. The Italian situation
> is so complicated that I don't think their proportion of "casual
> uploaders/experienced uploaders" is the same as for other countries, ergo,
> the banner would be less of an issue, though still an issue.
>
> On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 12:54 PM, Romaine Wiki <romaine.wiki at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Jane,
> > Yes, Italy is one of those odd countries without freedom of panorama. The
> > copyright on photos of monuments is held by local governments. Wikimedia
> > Italy has as large task to get permission from these hundreds/thousands
> > local administrations for the photos uploaded. Therefore organising Wiki
> > Loves Monuments in Italy is a very very heavy and extensive task in
> > comparison with other countries. The Italian Wiki Loves Monuments team
> does
> > a great job in getting all the permissions.
> >
> > You can't derive from the situation that there is no FoP, that thus the
> > impact won't be too great. Te kort door de bocht.
> >
> > Romaine
> >
> > 2015-08-24 12:19 GMT+02:00 Jane Darnell <jane023 at gmail.com>:
> >
> >> Isn't Italy one of those odd European countries that won't allow freedom
> >> of panorama? Surely the impact won't be too great, considering that the
> >> type of people who can participate are at least savvy enough to
> understand
> >> the oddities of the Italian monuments situation & Commons. Italy was
> late
> >> to join the WLM party for this reason, and I understand it is only
> specific
> >> municipalities that take part now.
> >>
> >> On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Romaine Wiki <romaine.wiki at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Giving Wiki Loves Monuments the worst possible situation is certainly
> >>> not a compromise, but a situation in what users from the community are
> >>> crushed under the weight of the foundation. A compromise is, according
> to
> >>> the dictionary, a situation in what both parties concede something. In
> this
> >>> case, WLM concedes everything and WMF nothing.
> >>> I have seen already users asking if this will be the next big clash
> >>> between WMF and the community, after the VisualEditor, MediaViewer,
> >>> Superprotect and other issues. I personally hope not.
> >>>
> >>> You are of course free to think how much negative impact it will have,
> >>> but I base my numbers on the statistics from the past years. We have
> seen
> >>> each time a big influence from conflicting banners or outage. We have
> >>> followed the statistics and the impact of past years and we have
> learned
> >>> from the past that it has a big impact we certainly should not
> >>> underestimate.
> >>>
> >>> And I disagree with your statement that there always will be a clash
> >>> somewhere. There is no need for a clash if people work together on the
> >>> planning. September is not the only month in autumn, and not all
> countries
> >>> are occupied by Wiki Loves Monuments. Suggesting otherwise are fairy
> tales.
> >>> This is one of the strongest examples of bad planning I have seen in
> all
> >>> the years. Of every country that organises Wiki Loves Monuments, they
> have
> >>> picked the worst possible country.
> >>>
> >>> You reduce this problem to just a "number of emotive emails", with what
> >>> you make clear you missed the essence of this case.
> >>>
> >>> Romaine
> >>>
> >>> 2015-08-24 10:53 GMT+02:00 Chris Keating <chriskeatingwiki at gmail.com>:
> >>>
> >>>> Hi Romaine,
> >>>>
> >>>> > And the outcome is ridiculous. This is not a compromise. The Italian
> >>>> WLM
> >>>> > team has been crashed under the weight and preponderance of the
> >>>> Wikimedia
> >>>> > Foundation.
> >>>>
> >>>> Well - it *is* a compromise. It isn't what you want and I think I
> >>>> understand your reasons for thinking it will have a very big impact. I
> >>>> know
> >>>> from plenty of past experience of being a volunteer disagreeing with
> WMF
> >>>> staff  how frustrating this is (though actually I think the impact on
> >>>> WLM
> >>>> will be less than you expect in this case).
> >>>>
> >>>> But it is plainly not the case that the WMF has just blundered ahead
> >>>> with
> >>>> what it was going to do anyway. And even if WMF were not involved at
> all
> >>>> and there were some other method of allocating banner space, if Autumn
> >>>> has
> >>>> the peak fundraising potential and is when WLM happens, there will
> >>>> always
> >>>> be some kind of clash somewhere, and someone or other will not get
> what
> >>>> they want. No number of emotive emails will change that.
> >>>>
> >>>> Regards,
> >>>>
> >>>> Chris
> >>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>
> >>
> >>
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> >>
> >
> >
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